New MS Flight Sim shown at E3

[ca_metal 2,086]

9 minutes ago, patrickbc said:

Quote from Matt Booty, the head of Xbox Game Studios:
 

"It’s interesting. The very first game that Microsoft ever published was Adventure, and then I think the second one was Flight. That was a published game, and then we acquired it? I think that’s how the history goes. There’s so much going on right now.

We put up that little tag at the beginning about satellite data and Azure AI. I don’t know if you know how that works, but we’re taking satellite map data, which is amazing, because it covers the whole planet, but it has big limitations. Parts of the planet are covered at different levels of detail. In order to make a modern flight simulator at the fidelity you need, you need accurate data. We’re using machine learning to fill in the places where we don’t know more than what the satellite data tells us. We know this is a blank spot in the middle of Nevada. Here’s what the stuff around it looks like. We know what Nevada generally looks like. Now we’ll generate that procedurally. There’s a ton of cool stuff in Flight Simulator."

 Source: https://venturebeat.com/2019/06/12/how-microsoft-showed-up-at-e3-locked-and-loaded-for-games-a-new-console-and-the-cloud/
 

That's what I thought they would do. Using azure to make corrections, not streaming the scenery. Well, we will know for sure in the coming months, but this statement sound really promissing.

Edited June 12, 2019 by ca_metal

[Paraffin 2,197]

7 hours ago, EGLD said:

I would expect this announcement has sent a bit of a shockwave through Laminar Research

Clearly, you don't know Austin Meyer. 😄

X-Plane is his personal obsession. He has always followed his own interests in developing the sim, ignoring what anyone else is doing. That's why the sim is so great in some areas, and so lacking in others. I imagine he probably welcomes a return to FS from Microsoft if it brings more people into the hobby. Meanwhile, the X-Plane roadmap won't be affected at all.

Another aspect of this, is that similar to LM with P3D, Laminar Research has other irons in the fire for income, like the Pro/training version of XP, and side contracts with aerospace clients. Austin probably doesn't need X-Plane to be commercially successful (although of course it doesn't hurt if it is).

[shivers9 1,174]

Well the "Herd of Cows" will be even more fun when the huge 747 in the room is released, that being Prepar3d V5.0 which may be in the next few months. I can't wait for that show LOL......Discuss.....

[eslader 1,823]

I didn't find anything to disagree with in the PMDG statement. They're right - if Microsoft decides to wall this thing off, then it's a failure. Even if it's a commercial success, to core simmers it's a failure, because walled off general simulators mean you're relying on one company to act as the gatekeeper between you and what you want out of the sim.

I wouldn't have any problem if Microsoft, as PMDG said, wanted to capture the secondary market, by making their own addons without restricting the ability of others to do the same. But I tend to agree with them that this seems unlikely.

When you really look at the intent behind Windows 10, it was to funnel us into a walled garden where, if 3rd party development weren't outright forbidden, it was certainly discouraged because - MS hoped - the average user would just go into the app store to find what he wanted rather than buying from a 3rd party. They wanted us in that garden so badly that they gave us free "upgrades" from Win7 - and in some cases literally forced those upgrades on Win7 users who had resisted.

That intent to capture all of our software dollars failed, largely because Microsoft can't get Windows 10 right to save its life, but the intent was there. And the same guys who came up with that strategy for Windows 10 are still working for the company, and it's almost guaranteed they've got their hand in "goals for FS2020." I will be pleasantly surprised if 3rd party development were supported by MS in this version, and will not at all be surprised if it is not.

 

[Dominique_K 10,156]

3 hours ago, FlyingRoo said:

 

Not sure if you've seen this already but PMDG released an official statement

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/14257-12jun19-pmdg-and-the-microsoft-flight-simulator-2020-question

 

 

 

Randazzo is very much to the point. Behind the glitz, there is a  business model which might  be worrying if we consider the game industry developments these recent years. 

I would add that announcing a product at least seven months before its release may significantly slow down the market for the present players. This is borderline predatory.

Edited June 12, 2019 by domkle

[Luke 782]

9 minutes ago, eslader said:

I wouldn't have any problem if Microsoft, as PMDG said, wanted to capture the secondary market, by making their own addons without restricting the ability of others to do the same. But I tend to agree with them that this seems unlikely.

I don't. Apple's proven that if you allow the creation of a vibrant ecosystem funneled through your storefront, you can take a smaller slice of a much, much larger pie.

My interests as a user are different than those of vendors, or Microsoft. I wouldn't have an issue with Microsoft providing a store that gives me the easy ability to review, purchase, install and update add-ons. As a software author, I wouldn't mind if Microsoft took a slightly smaller cut than some of the current vendors and relieved me of the burden of custom installers, update code and a bunch of other distractions that really should be common.

Cheers!

Luke

 

[Pastaiolo 1,690]

Some points from Randazzo are valid, others are just Randozzo's points shown to the public to protect his company interests.

In the lower part of his statement he is sort of giving the idea that Microsoft is jumping in to make money, while apparently PMDG is a charity doing its things for the greater good.

I would also remind everyone that without Microsoft we woudn't have had probably the most iconic flight simulator series on pc. They don't lack resources nor capabilities, so now it's just a matter of waiting to see what they are actually up to and what their product will be like (since so far we are on a speculation trip). I started using it when i was a teenager with FS98 when i was 9 years old and i am still in the flight simulator genre now at almost 30 years old. I think they deserve a bit of faith. Plenty of time to negatively judge them.

Edited June 12, 2019 by france89
grammar

[skully 1,046]

19 minutes ago, domkle said:

I would add that announcing a product at least seven months before its release may significantly slow down the market for the present players. This is borderline predatory.

If you were the Microsoft manager in charge of the new simulator, how would you have handled it?

[Woozie 732]

33 minutes ago, domkle said:

Randazzo is very much to the point. Behind the glitz, there is a  business model which might  be worrying if we consider the game industry developments these recent years. 

The trend is actually going in the opposite direction currently, also driven by library subscription models. Subscribers automatically get DLC as well (at least at Origin and GamePass), so there's much less money to be made with post release content. And they largely follow the same business model as PMDG, which is making as much money as possible with their products. 

 

33 minutes ago, domkle said:

I would add that announcing a product at least seven months before its release may significantly slow down the market for the present players. This is borderline predatory.

Whats so bad about this? Everyone does this, even PMDG announce their products several months before they get released

Edited June 12, 2019 by Woozie

[ckyliu 1,749]

Honestly I get fed up with community's seemingly continual hanging on to every word of RSR like he's a benevolent demigod and holding up PMDG as the only "study level" developer (for example asking PMDG repeatedly to do a 757 when the CS P3D one is basically PMDG standard).

PMDG obviously don't want to have sell through MS because they will have to pay fees to them, it opens them up to more competition (the mass market will baulk at PMDG prices when the can get iFly and Ariane for a lot less or whatever the equivalent will be), and they may have restrictions placed on what they can do in the simulator; it comes across in RSR's statement it doesn't suit PMDG but that doesn't mean it would be bad for us consumers, look at Steam and Google Play. Although I'm sure RSR & PMDG will find a way to continue pricing at P3D levels 🤣

I did take away some interesting information though:

Quote

We learned during this effort that Microsoft would insist that it had the right to recapture any development done within their core code if they were to decide to re-enter the marketplace. This made the purchase untenable to us, as it meant that Microsoft would always have a leg up to compete with us using our own work.

Which would lend credence to the theory that DTG's TrueSky technology from FSW is what we're seeing in the FS11 video.

Edited June 12, 2019 by ckyliu

[Dominique_K 10,156]

Just now, skully said:

If you were the Microsoft manager in charge of the new simulator, how would you have handled it?

I am not.

As a customer and hobbyist, I observe that they are Microsoft and thus any of their announcement has a powerful effect on any market they reach. The FS market is a small and fragile ecosystem. If they wanted to starve small players of cash to clear up the field, that would be a good move.

[Woozie 732]

1 minute ago, domkle said:

If they wanted to starve small players of cash to clear up the field, that would be a good move.

Aaah, the "big bad MS" spin again... 😉

[shivers9 1,174]

4 minutes ago, skully said:

If you were the Microsoft manager in charge of the new simulator, how would you have handled it?

I think MS has some code and ideas but this smells very much like a Trial Balloon of sorts to see if the market is right to try another end run to get around developers. Remember this is a big company and they left the Sim market at the drop of a hat once and they can sure delay of drop this all tomorrow. Really we know nothing at all. Zero. All that has happened is that MS said " guys...look at this shinny coin.

[vortex681 806]

42 minutes ago, eslader said:

That intent to capture all of our software dollars failed, largely because Microsoft can't get Windows 10 right to save its life

I have to disagree. The next serious problem I have with Windows 10 (installed since the release but now 1903) will be the first. Whilst I feel sorry for those people who've had problems (and have been VERY vocal about them), the vast majority haven't.

Edited June 12, 2019 by vortex681

[Dominique_K 10,156]

6 minutes ago, Woozie said:

Aaah, the "big bad MS" spin again... 😉

Nope, I am not a MS basher. On the contrary, I see them as a great company. But I don't like the timing of the announcement because I don't want all the little guys go under.

Edited June 12, 2019 by domkle