New MS Flight Sim shown at E3 - Updated Information

[DaWu 779]

The most important thing to look forward is performance. Yesterday I did an approch with the PMDG 777 on Toronto and my FPS dropped to ~15. I am so sick of that. I ALT F4ed before touchdown as it was unplayable (manual approach).

So new MSFS with modern technology and good performance is a god sent at least for me. 

What we have now with P3D is designed for CPUs with 6-7+ GhZ. But nobody foresee back in the time that an unbreakable limit was reached with 5GhZ.

If the CPU spees had evolved in the 2010+ like in the 2000s we would all have 10 GhZ CPUs now and fly with 120 FPS with ALL addons

[simbol 5,862]

1 hour ago, DaWu said:

You wanting to make money is Ok. What addons do you make? Maybe I have one. 

But all I read from you is attacking and pure negativity towards the new MSFS2020. Scepticism is ok but reading through your post this must be the most evil thing coming to earth on 2020.

With that I have a problem as its not based on facts.

You read the words on the new MSFS2020 Homepage? There will be a SDK so instead of fighting it you may want to adapt in the future?

Nobody knows how this all will end up. Maybe it will be a flop. But right now the future looks bright and if MS delivers and not does some stupid gamebreaking stuff than it is the future and death of P3D no matter how much you seem to not like this forecast.

Rob didn't criticised MS2020, he was just providing testing data in regards how data streaming works and how much it could be achieved realistically if Microsoft indeed follow this path (we don;t know yet of course) and technology in order to deliver content, his advise was simple to don't jump the gun until you are sure what Microsoft is planning to deliver works for you. I don't see how this becomes a personal attack towards MS or trying to manipulate people to stay with P3D, etc.

In passing Rob A. experience with Simulators (P3D, XP11, AF2, FSW and FSX) is very extensive, he performs professional beta testing of most simulators and most add-on's that everyone here are using, so his experience is one of the largest and extensive you could find in the entire flying sim community, as an example the P3D HF1 was pretty much heavily tested internally between Lockheed Martin and Rob Ainscough, if there is somebody that knows very well how to adapt to the future is Rob, so I would take his ensigns and advice much more seriously.

Regards,
S.

 

Edited June 25, 2019 by simbol

[ckyliu 1,749]

@Ray Proudfoot Whilst you've never outright said you've written off MFS 2020, many of your posts adopt that tone. Whilst you have not done so in your previous post, in earlier posts you seem to have drawn negative conclusions to those questions already, always a presumption towards worst case scenario rather than most likely scenario:

1) There's been no suggestion from MS there's any streaming beyond mention of Azure Cloud in the trailer, which could just be for processing (not distributing) the ortho scenery. Certainly streaming in terms of "playing a video stream" would seem unlikely as the only means of playing given the connection speeds many users have access to. Significant streaming of essential content for any game has yet to occur for the same connectivity reasons. It is likely MS would provide a base landclass install (just like any other flight or world simulator), that is logical as even in the event of streaming it would heavily reduce the amount of data it has to send over the web. However this base landclass may serve as in-fill and fallback for Bing/GoogleEarth style streamed ortho scenery. Certainly too much has been made of the "2 PB" figure, which is very likely source data and not compiled data.

2) Whilst the Xbox game pass has been mentioned, MS have clarified this service would provide access to most MS games for a single monthly fee and would mean many people could try out flight sim casually who would not otherwise pay the full purchase price to try it, making the product more financially viable. There is no suggestion a normal lifetime licence will not be available, indeed such a state of affairs would be pretty much unprecedented in the gaming sphere. That's not say it won't happen, but it' is unlikely to be subscription only. The ortho scenery elements are quite likely to be streamed and if they are that potentially would be on a subscription basis.

You also seem very against Microsoft making any money from third party addons, but I don't see how Microsoft is suppose to fund on-going development of the platform from a £40 sale of a base simulator every couple of years. Obviously if MS gets greedy it will kill the addon ecosystem, but then again charging £100+ for a base aircraft hasn't killed FSL or PMDG and they're living very comfortably off the back of that! I don't see why MS shouldn't get to a small chunk of that revenue to support development of the base platform that enables them to start with. Hopefully there'll be centralised stores and freeware repositories on both Steam and Microsoft's platform, which might induce some much needed price competition!

Edited June 25, 2019 by ckyliu

[Ray Proudfoot 9,067]

@ckyliu, pretty much all you have said is conjecture. We've had reams of that so I don't intend to add to that discussion. I am a naturally suspicious person which comes in handy when the phone rings and it's some scammer purporting to represent a bona-fide company so that isn't a bad position to adopt.

I'm not against Microsoft making money but given they were happy to accept the profits from sales of previous versions of flight sim I start to smell a rat if they will only allow developers to sell through the Microsoft channels taking a cut for their minimal effort. I'd much rather pay the developer for his efforts. Plenty of people will happily pay FSL or PMDG for their efforts because those are the people who have done all the hard work. Shopkeepers don't put in much effort so shouldn't expect much reward. Time will tell.

[Wobbie 938]

Something similar to FlightGear's way of getting scenery.

You have 2 choices, either downloading scenery per block, from a map, or, as you fly into an area where you do not have scenery, it will download auomatically.

Also, you have a small base aircraft selection, & you can download aircraft from a library list within the sim itself.

Airports are a different issue.

[ckyliu 1,749]

But what you've said over the last few weeks @Ray Proudfoot is conjecture too. Just conjecture that is worst case scenario rather than most likely. You previously said it'll almost certainly be streamed because it has 2 PB of data. And that it won't have an SDK (prior to MS releasing their statement).

Gaming has changed immensely since FSX was released, Steam wasn't even a thing back then and addons weren't of the complexity or pricing they are now. Games have become more expensive to develop as the graphic quality and feature set has increased, and monetisation of DLC has become commonplace. I agree shop keepers shouldn't get much reward as they've put less in, but should they get nothing?

Edited June 25, 2019 by ckyliu

[Ray Proudfoot 9,067]

Just now, ckyliu said:

But what you've said @Ray Proudfoot is conjecture too. Just conjecture that is worst case scenario rather than most likely.

No, it isn't conjecture. I have stated what would be acceptable to me before I would consider buying the product.

[Pastaiolo 1,690]

25 minutes ago, simbol said:

In passing Rob A. experience with Simulators (P3D, XP11, AF2, FSW and FSX) is very extensive, he performs professional beta testing of most simulators and most add-on's that everyone here are using, so his experience is one of the largest and extensive you could find in the entire flying sim community, as an example the P3D HF1 was pretty much heavily tested internally between Lockheed Martin and Rob Ainscough, if there is somebody that knows very well how to adapt to the future is Rob, so I would take his ensigns and advice much more seriously.

Regards,
S.

 

Let's exclude XP11 knowledge please, because in the past he demonstrated quite some lack of knowledge on that specific platform and what addons for it are capable of. To be honest i would just stick him in the P3D list since that was indeed as you said his business and had tighter connections to its developers too.

Back on MS Flight sim, @Ray Proudfoot , just wanted to point out that you need to improve your internet searching capabilities because
1) The official MS Flight sim site does mention "We are supporting 3rd Party Content Development and Community Content creation." which requires a SDK.

2) XBox Game Pass: We know what it does already. You can play all those games for a monthly fee, but you can also buy them with up to 20% discount and keep them forever. More importantly, on the official site link

https://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-game-pass/pc-games

you can see that they will have a new Xbox app which works like the Steam store, in the upper part of its window it has 3 categories "Game Pass, Social, Store" and even under it you can see that games can be just bought, of course without the discount the Game Pass offers.

[ckyliu 1,749]

Thanks @Flamingpie that's what I was looking for but couldn't really be bothered to dig out beyond 5 minutes of searching 🤣 But I knew I hadn't imagined it, even at my age!

Edited June 25, 2019 by ckyliu

[Ray Proudfoot 9,067]

14 minutes ago, france89 said:

Back on MS Flight sim, @Ray Proudfoot , just wanted to point out that you need to improve your internet searching capabilities because
1) The official MS Flight sim site does mention "We are supporting 3rd Party Content Development and Community Content creation." which requires a SDK.

They could just have said “We will provide an SDK free of charge”.  Crystal clear.

[francy25 130]

Just now, Ray Proudfoot said:

They could just have said “We will provide an SDK free of charge”.  Crystal clear.

Like if that wasn't clear enough....

Come on, that sentence is taken from their last press release of some days ago.

[Ray Proudfoot 9,067]

8 minutes ago, Flamingpie said:

Er...

'I'm staying with LM' sounds a bit like writing MFS off, imho...? 😉 But seriously, I think you said that in the heat of the (Concorde) moment: your recent posts made it very clear that you are willing to wait and see what MFS will offer before you decide if MFS is the right sim for you or not. And I think this is the case for absolutely everyone here: even those who already know now they will definitely buy MFS on release day can't possibly say it will be their main sim in the future. No one can know that for sure until MFS has been (at least) tried and tested. And some may need a few years of prove before they'll make that decision. 

“Sounds a bit like...” is not conclusive. All that means is that until I have seen more info on the questions I posted earlier I will not consider it. And did you really search back through my post to find that? Crikey! 🙄

I never buy products on day 1. I only bought P3D v3 around 2 years ago when the time was right for me. There would have to be 3rd party content available directly from those parties before I would consider buying. And that means a minimum of 12 months probably.

[Wobbie 938]

And then there are those that are not conservative. I started off with P3D1.4.

It's really not an intellectual exercise at all. There's no need to justify as to when you buy something. 

Obviously, the early responders know that normally, there's a bit of a guarantee, but still, if things bomb out, an update soon follows.

In any case, for me, I enjoy being there at the beginning. Just as I was very happy adopting Windows 10, by updating my Windows 7 as soon as I could.

As far as 3rd party content goes, I actually prefer supporting the freeware guys, unless there is some payware that really catches my eye. 

[Ray Proudfoot 9,067]

@Flamingpie, I want to stay nice too but honestly, the discussion on this sim has gone through the roof and whatever the topic the same things keep being said.

There is only one product that would make me buy FS2020 - FSL Concorde. Until and unless that aircraft features I won’t consider it. If for whatever reason FSL decide to build it only for P3D that means I would stay with P3D.

[laminator 20]

33 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

They could just have said “We will provide an SDK free of charge”.  Crystal clear.

Here I have to disagree.

This sentence would have a vastly different meaning to: "We are supporting 3rd Party Content Development and Community Content creation."

Nowhere MS said it would be free of charge. Maybe that could be an option to get their share off of addon sales. It could be a model like some Gameengine Licenses are structured. Unity engine for example is free for hobbyists and people that provide content free of charge. If you make more than 100k per year with a product created with Unity you have to pay roality-fees. IIRC Unreal engine has a similar model.

In sum we really know almost nothing, so lets see where this road will lead...

regards

Thomas

Edited June 25, 2019 by laminator
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