@laminator, I agree with you. Their statement means many will assume the SDK will be freely available. It might but unless I see that word then there’s no guarantee it will be.

That could be extremely significant because it would effectively freeze out those who create freeware addons like those Scenery Library utilities that we consider invaluable.

@Ray Proudfoot, I mentioned that e.g. some gameengines are free to use for non commercial use, so freeware and hobbyist usage would be free in such a case. I don´t see any problem with such a model if roality fees are appropriate for the size of the flightsim market (at last, addon developers have to make a living off their business).

@laminator, we'll have to wait and see until Microsoft clarify the situation regarding the SDK.

I don't expect details of the SDK will become clear until near or at the time of release, possibly even post release. It's not really a priority for marketing of an upcoming release. Suppose we'll see what the roadmap in August reveals, but I'm not expecting much beyond a brief outline.

Edited June 25, 20196 yr by ckyliu

4 minutes ago, ckyliu said:

I don't expect details of the SDK will become clear until near or at the time of release, possibly even post release. It's not really a priority for marketing of an upcoming release.

Except that in this case they have made a specific point of saying that third party partners and communities are a crucial part of the new FS.  So details about an SDK would be quite critical to that statement

Edited June 25, 20196 yr by ErichB

8 hours ago, Bert Pieke said:

Many of us remember getting burned twice.. first by Microsoft cancelling FS development after FSX,

We didn't get burned on that. We bought FSX, expecting to be able to use FSX. I bought FSX on launch day. I used FSX until about a year ago when I finally moved over to P3d. Microsoft sold me a "game" that I "played" for 12 years. Had they continued development of the FS platform back then, then FSX+1 would have required a whole new purchase of the base platform, and most likely significant replacements of any addons I had, much as P3dv4 did. It's not like they promised they were going to drop all sorts of free upgrades for FSX, or that FSX+1 would definitely be developed and be a free upgrade for FSX owners, so I didn't get screwed when they chose not to make another sequel.

8 hours ago, Bert Pieke said:

and secondly by then promising us a bright future with Flight

I didn't get screwed on that either. It was free. If I recall correctly, the first payware addon dropped the day they announced they were suspending development, so I knew not to buy it. I was disappointed that they didn't continue to develop it, but seeing as how it was free, I didn't lose anything when it was cancelled.

 

As disappointed as I was when Microsoft fired ACES, and again when they walked away from Flight, I was disappointed because I like what they do in the flight sim realm and would like for them to do more. But they don't actually owe us these things. They gave everyone who gave them money for a flight simulation product what those people paid money to get. Computer software isn't always like the Friday the 13th movies. There is no guarantee that there will be eleventy-thousand sequels. You buy the software that's in front of you, without the expectation that there will be more software to buy later unless that's expressly promised before you buy it.

 

6 minutes ago, ErichB said:

Except that in this case they have made a specific point of saying that third party partners and communities are a crucial part of the new FS.  So details about an SDK would be quite critical to that statement

I totally agree. And in a perfect world, 3rd party devs should get their hands on it asap, the lead time for complex addons in the flightsim business is quite hefty.

Either way, it will be quite a wait until we really can get our hands on it in full glory - if ever. Maybe a release in 2020, then I would expect at least a year until the first high quality addons will be availible, provided everything works out as we would like it to be;)

The FSX SDK was not exactly "free". At a minimum you had to buy the deluxe version of FSX and it was never freely downloadable, though that kinda changed when the P3D v1 SDK became available.

Since MS says they support community content creation I take that to mean the barriers to freeware development will be very low.

44 minutes ago, laminator said:

Here I have to disagree.

This sentence would have a vastly different meaning to: "We are supporting 3rd Party Content Development and Community Content creation."

Nowhere MS said it would be free of charge.

In a modern flight game this may typically mean DLC's and the community can create some cool missions...just sayin'

Dog is a dog and a dog is not cat and cat is not dog either so you always just have to call a dog, dog or a cat, cat because otherwise things would be really hard to understand. SDK is SDK, it's not all those other words above or we have dog as cat problem once more.

Why should the SDK be free? Microsoft will put many man hours into developing it and is entitled to a reasonable RTI.

IF someone is interested in developing for the sim they should be willing to contribute to the cost of the tools. 

 

If the current developers of addons refuse to stick with the new rules MS will set for MSFS2020 then others will jump in and make addons. Its not like nobody can make addons besides the few that make them for years.

Of course there should be a fair cut but what is fair is highly debatable. Steam is gettin heavily critized for their 30% cut for every single game sold through steam. But people have no clue what it acually costs to run a massive server farm like Steam does.

And I by no means want another eco system like now where every addon is on another website with a unique installer etc etc. FTX central is super easy and something like that is needed for all of the addons combined at best running directly from the new game itself or an official MS store.

End to the days were folks at PMDG charge me ridiculous prices for addons, then charge again for a 64bit transition (simple search & replace of var types) and then want to charge me again if I want to redownload the installers again. Thats pure greed and only accepted cos without any alternatives.

2 minutes ago, 188AHC said:

Why should the SDK be free? Microsoft will put many man hours into developing it and is entitled to a reasonable RTI.

IF someone is interested in developing for the sim they should be willing to contribute to the cost of the tools. 

Because a sim with 3rd party addons is far more attractive than one without. It’s called a loss-leader. You give something away knowing in the long term you’ll get your money back through increased sales.

Commercial 3rd party developers are in it to make a profit so I repeat, why should they get the tools for free? 

As for freeware developers, they are a passionate group and I don't believe they would balk at  paying a reasonable sum. 

 

SDK can be free as long as your addon is non commercial

10 minutes ago, 188AHC said:

Why should the SDK be free? Microsoft will put many man hours into developing it and is entitled to a reasonable RTI.

IF someone is interested in developing for the sim they should be willing to contribute to the cost of the tools. 

That's one approach, but not the only successful one. Providing the tools free of charge allows more rapid expansion of the "ecosystem" that improves and broadens the appeal of the base simulation. The mantra here at Avsim has always been that a flight sim lives or dies based on that ecosystem of addons. I don't think it will be any different with the new MSFS.

Example: One of best available helicopters in XP11 is the Bell 429, with graphics and systems modeling much better than the default S-76 that comes with the sim. It's freeware, made with the tools Laminar provides anyone. It's the first model helo fans point out to newbies interested in helicopters in that sim, because it's free. People who fly the 429 and enjoy it, might then be interested in picking up one of the payware helicopters and maybe tell their friends, leading to more sales of payware aircraft and the base flight simulator.

It's the difference between an "open" and "closed" platform. Any brand new sim will have few aircraft at first. The open approach is the quickest way to expand the fleet. 

Of course, the counter-argument is that MS will probably want to keep the initial release free of dodgy 3rd party content. That's understandable. But if they want the most rapid expansion in the aircraft fleet after the initial splash on release, they'll get there sooner with a free SDK.