June 25, 20196 yr @Rob_Ainscough Why does the trailer look so much better visually than P3D and XP11? (I think it does - maybe you disagree?) Edited June 25, 20196 yr by irrics
June 25, 20196 yr 4 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said: So much for "new code" and "new design" ... there are real computing limits for everything that makes up a flight simulator ... that's my point. If that's your view - why are you "cautiously optimistic" about MSFS 2020? What are you actually optimistic about? You sound like you don't think there's anything they could bring to the table that isn't already being done by P3D and/or XP.
June 25, 20196 yr While it is true that it's not a fair comparison doing one between a flight simulator and an open world game, i also have to point out that the whole "P3D models the whole world" when compared to Aerofly FS2, Flight and DCS is completely nonsense. First of all i do not think for a moment that in every moment the whole world is available, second of all even if that is the case the whole world is drawn with really low textures and autogen is limited to few miles around you. It would make no sense for it to draw objects further away since the only end result would be to destroy performance completely. It's the same reason of why objects have different lod details based on distance. What are we even talking about? Chock 1.1: "The only thing that whines louder than a jet engine is a flight simmer."
June 25, 20196 yr 2 minutes ago, irrics said: @Rob_Ainscough Why does the trailer look so much better visually than P3D and XP11? (I think it does - maybe you disagree?) They use an extremly high data approach. X-Plane and P3D don't. The complete simulator has in X-Plane a size of 70 GB. Don't forget Washington alone from OrbX uses 200 GB . Karsten Schubert
June 25, 20196 yr I will have to side with @Rob_Ainscoughin this discussion - not as a skeptic of MSFS 2020, but Rob is being realistic in his critiquing analysis. I think it is short sighted to disregard his extensive knowledge and understanding in the current state of how flight sims work and what it takes to realistically move a vehicle from point A to point B in the air. Discussions like this are healthy for our genre, but it's still too early to shut the door in either direction. AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D 4.7GHz - 5.2GHz|CyberPowerPC MasterLiquid CPU Cooler|MSI PRO B850-VC WiFi Mobo|GeForce RTX 5070 12GB|DDR5-6000MHz 32GB|950 PRO M.2 2TB|850 EVO 500GB|2TB Seagate FireCuda SSHD|CyberPower ATX|850 Watts - Standard 80 Plus Gold PS|Win11 64bit Home|MSFS2024 Std Ed I love the smell of Jet-A in the morning! Robert Pressley a.k.a. SmokeDiddy
June 25, 20196 yr 5 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said: it's not going to change the reality I know as a programmer who happens to also be very aware of current hardware limitations and the compromises need. Cheers, Rob. So what is it that you're "cautiously optimistic" about? It almost seems that you're saying that FS2020 will be no different from XP or P3D as they're both optimised for today's hardware so why bother having it? Give people power to really test their personality.
June 25, 20196 yr 2 minutes ago, Longranger said: They use an extremly high data approach. X-Plane and P3D don't. The complete simulator has in X-Plane a size of 70 GB. Don't forget Washington alone from OrbX uses 200 GB . Oh I mean more than that - lighting, weather, scenery - basically anything you could think of looked better.
June 25, 20196 yr 3 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said: P3D and XP11 are optimized for today's hardware ... heck I think Austin claimed something like over 80% of the XP10 code was re-written for XP11 ... and I can still get XP11 down to single digit FPS at 4K res just as I can in P3D with the right set of add-ons configured to extremes and some visual enhancement tweaks to go even further. So much for "new code" and "new design" ... there are real computing limits for everything that makes up a flight simulator ... that's my point. Sure you can bog down any sim with a big enough burden to calculate/display, no doubt! I myself am a XP user since ver7, and despite the code refactoring in large areas in v11 the sim has still trouble to utilize all my cores to a high extent. I don´t own P3Dv4, but I hear from friends and read that it´s basically the same story there too. I think we deserve software that really utilizes our expensive overclocked rigs, that´s all I ask for 😉 I used all versions of MSFS since MS Flightsim for Amiga back in 1986/87(?) and on PC since 1990, XP since v7, and I welcome if a new challenger enters the field, its good for us from a consumer perspective. If they do it right, great! If they fail, we continue to use our beloved sims further on. no real harm done. regards Thomas
June 25, 20196 yr 4 minutes ago, SamYeager said: So what is it that you're "cautiously optimistic" about? It almost seems that you're saying that FS2020 will be no different from XP or P3D as they're both optimised for today's hardware so why bother having it? That's where I'm confused also Edited June 25, 20196 yr by irrics
June 25, 20196 yr 1 minute ago, irrics said: Oh I mean more than that - lighting, weather, scenery - basically anything you could think of looked better. What was rendered on a single computer?ö. There were many parts that weren't the result by an AI but by an artist. They had optimized the used filters. Yes, it was rendered but it was handpicked and optimized.for every second. That's the problem of videos. Karsten Schubert
June 25, 20196 yr 1 minute ago, Longranger said: What was rendered on a single computer?ö. There were many parts that weren't the result by an AI but by an artist. They had optimized the used filters. Yes, it was rendered but it was handpicked and optimized.for every second. That's the problem of videos. How do you know what was or wasn't in game footage or what touch up was done? That sounds like you're baking in some assumptions there, correct?
June 25, 20196 yr Time will tell who is right and who is wrong in this debate, either way when MS release MSFS2020 one side will have to eat humble pie. AMD 9800X3D, NZXT X73 RGB AIO COOLER, Gigabyte X870 Aorus Elite WIFI7, 64GB 6000MHZ RAM, 4TB Samsung Pro NVME, 4 TB Crucial P3+ NVME, 4TB Crucial SSD, Gigabyte Gaming OC Geforce RTX5090, Antec C8 ARGB Case, X55 JOYSTICK/THROTTLES, LG 4K C4 42" TV/Monitor 120 Hz, 2 Dell 1080 monitors. Honeycomb Alpha Yoke, Bravo Throttle. Thrustmaster TPR Pedals. Moza AB6 FFB Joystick, Pimax Crystal Light VR, Tobii Eye tracker, Steelseries Arctis 7+ Wireless Headphones.
June 25, 20196 yr 2 minutes ago, irrics said: How do you know what was or wasn't in game footage or what touch up was done? That sounds like you're baking in some assumptions there, correct? Sure. Primarily the assumption that they are several months away from release. Many of these things are optimized just before release. So they can't have the suitable algorithms ready. Since these optimzations were done, it was a human. Karsten Schubert
June 25, 20196 yr 4 minutes ago, Longranger said: So they can't have the suitable algorithms ready How do you know how long they've been working on this and what state the development is at? Edited June 25, 20196 yr by irrics
June 25, 20196 yr 4 minutes ago, eaim said: Time will tell who is right and who is wrong in this debate, either way when MS release MSFS2020 one side will have to eat humble pie. My money is on the "pie eating" taking place in the cockpits of P3D and XP pilots Edited June 25, 20196 yr by irrics
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