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nonflyingdutchman

pc or xbox??

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On 6/30/2019 at 2:59 AM, Skywatcher said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Xbox_One_video_games

A 2 second search and here are some of the best selling games. Young people games for a young people market who want to blow things up. How many copies of a hardcore flight sim do people really think will sell on this platform? How many hardcore sims on console? A few soft racing games which appeal to every male of any age and that's about it.

There is nothing related to age or gender in the link you shared? Most research in this area (I.e ‘gamers’) points to a broadly 50:50 gender split and an average age in the mid 30s, so Microsoft’s research is hardly an outlier. It is a very different demographic than it was 10 or 20 years ago - which is where most of these assumptions about it being full of young males comes from. 

I agree that I wouldnt pay too much notice to their research (though 2000 people surveyed is within the realms of statistical significance), but you can’t challenge that in one breath, and then make other broad assumptions with the next.

Also I think a more relevant question might be how many people who have the Xbox game pass will download mfs to see what it’s like? It may not generate as many proactive sales as the halos, pubg and call of dutys of this world (very little does), but I’d be willing to bet that quite a lot of people would want to have a look. Just look how many hits the trailer has got. 

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11 hours ago, Superdelphinus said:

There is nothing related to age or gender in the link you shared?

You think a bunch of 50-70 year olds are playing those particular games???

Consoles don't have hardcore sims. If your age bracket was anywhere near accurate, you would have some sims. Closest you get is a few racing games because these appeal to the casual adult gamer and almost any kid. The rest of the console simming community is flat out with Sims 4! haha

If you still have doubts, just look at every person and kid you know.

You don't need to see stats to work out what age group is using what.


Mark Daniels

 

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1 hour ago, Skywatcher said:

You think a bunch of 50-70 year olds are playing those particular games???

No one said it was 50-70 year olds playing those games. What people are saying as that the average age of people playing games, including on consoles is in the 30s, not in the teens as you keep claiming. Many of us believe those numbers because they line up with what we see personally with family, friends and coworkers, as well as in various gaming communities. In fact, everyone I know playing those games is well over 20, if not in their 30s (or even older). If you really want to convince people the average age of a console user is something like 14, you will have to provide something more concrete.

And not having a hard core flight sim doesn't mean it can't be done or won't work. Once upon a time, it was accepted wisdom that first person shooters couldn't possibly work on consoles, or at least not very well. Then along came Goldeneye, which proved it could be done, and done well. This opened up the market for Halo and others to follow. I see no technical reason a realistic and detailed sim along the lines of FSX couldn't be made for a console, and think it will come down to the marketing side of things (subscription only or no, how open will the sim be to third party content etc.). In fact, if done right, I can easily see a bunch of 50+ year olds buying a console to fly to avoid messing around with maintaining a PC.

 

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3 minutes ago, goates said:

 I see no technical reason a realistic and detailed sim along the lines of FSX couldn't be made for a console

Let's see, took MS a gizillion versions to finally create FSX.

Took X-Plane decades to get to a sim that still doesn't have basic features like ATC, AI etc,

LM have done how much with a sim that was already fully complete when handed to them over how many years?

Yes, this MSFS version is going to be created by MS and the hand of god. Not only will it work on one platform, it'll work across 2 and will be backwards compatible with all previous MSFS version add-ons and have a converter to convert any plane ever made for any plane sim in history. 

Now, I need to copy and paste this reply into the Key things MS Needs to do (it won't be easy) thread. lol
 

 


Mark Daniels

 

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10 minutes ago, Skywatcher said:

Yes, this MSFS version is going to be created by MS and the hand of god. Not only will it work on one platform, it'll work across 2 and will be backwards compatible with all previous MSFS version add-ons and have a converter to convert any plane ever made for any plane sim in history. 

Now, I need to copy and paste this reply into the Key things MS Needs to do (it won't be easy) thread. lol

Please stop trying to put (very ridiculous) words into my mouth. Your response is no less silly than those who actually do seem to think this new sim is the Second Coming. I claimed it could be done, not that it would. And neither of us know how long MS has been working on the sim, or where they started from. As for working on multiple platforms, the Xbox and PC aren't that different any more.

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Just now, goates said:

Please stop trying to put (very ridiculous) words into my mouth. Your response is no less silly than those who actually do seem to think this new sim is the Second Coming. I claimed it could be done, not that it would. And neither of us know how long MS has been working on the sim, or where they started from. As for working on multiple platforms, the Xbox and PC aren't that different any more.

You guys are waaaay too serious!

They can't have been working on it that long because technology changes, economics change. Creating a game across both platforms to the level this community is expecting will be an incredible challenge. In simple terms, it simply will not happen. Even MS have sidestepped any confirmation of the expectations here.

It just shows how simple marketing can be. If MS went and called MSFS by any other name, there would likely be a couple of threads running and that would be it.


Mark Daniels

 

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On 6/22/2019 at 10:52 PM, spilok said:

My PC is "built for Flight Simulation" by Jetline.  It's fantastic,

Yes me too, my older Jetline PC is running like some of these newer systems I hear about today. But I do my part as well; keep it clean, neat, and tidy too.:biggrin: 

smooth as baby oil - high settings - long 16 hour flights - tons of add-ons - stable … all the benefits of a Jetline owner.🤸‍♂️😂

Intending on ordering a new one soon for MSFS 2020 or P3Dv5 depending on the facts to come. As usual I will keep the current one and other much older systems, running strong well into the future.🤑

XBOX for a flight sim - no, not even it was free.👨‍✈️

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On 6/22/2019 at 6:24 PM, nonflyingdutchman said:

Would you prefer running the new fs on a pc or (optimised for) xbox (preferrably the project scarlett)

Well I for one am going down the PC route.

I've only just heard about MFS and after several years away from the hobby (seems like a lifetime) I'm now resolved to finally replace my ancient PC and pick it up again.

This seems like the perfect moment.

Expensive though...

Ian

 

 

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On 7/3/2019 at 2:56 AM, Skywatcher said:

You guys are waaaay too serious!

They can't have been working on it that long because technology changes, economics change. Creating a game across both platforms to the level this community is expecting will be an incredible challenge. In simple terms, it simply will not happen. Even MS have sidestepped any confirmation of the expectations here.

It just shows how simple marketing can be. If MS went and called MSFS by any other name, there would likely be a couple of threads running and that would be it.

That's what`s happened on some forums around the web no wild speculation just OK let`s wait and see what MS brings.


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For what I do with a computer, I need the flexibility of a desktop.  But I really don't care what the box looks like or what it's called if it does everything I need it to do.  Eventually the consoles may replace desktops for most people as capabilities improve.

I have a desktop, my son has a desktop (recently replaced his laptop), his wife has an XBox and these all suit our needs.  I just bought my wife a 2-in-1 (functions as a laptop or tablet) which is what she needs.  My wife and daughter-in-law have no use or need for a desktop.  My wife has no use for a console.  I'll have limited use for the 2-in-1 although my son might find it useful.  I'll find out more tomorrow when it's delivered.

We all get what suits our needs, and I'm glad the options exist.

Hook

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Larry Hookins

 

Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;

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I just thought of an interesting scenario.

I'm halfway expecting Microsoft to introduce a new VR system, probably revolutionary in design and capabilities.  What happens if this new system only works on the new XBox?  Wanna bet people would be buying the new XBox plus the new VR, especially if it's significantly cheaper than upgrading an aging PC?

Totally speculation, of course, and any new VR system should eventually migrate to the PC.  By "revolutionary" I'm talking about a system that should win converts of people who have avoided VR. A good VR system would mesh nicely with some of their other products.  ASOBO makes an interesting augmented reality system so this might not be as crazy as it first sounds.

This would be an excellent time to reintroduce their Sidewinder joysticks, suitably upgraded.

Hook


Larry Hookins

 

Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;

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5 minutes ago, LHookins said:

I just thought of an interesting scenario.

I'm halfway expecting Microsoft to introduce a new VR system, probably revolutionary in design and capabilities.  What happens if this new system only works on the new XBox?  Wanna bet people would be buying the new XBox plus the new VR, especially if it's significantly cheaper than upgrading an aging PC?

Totally speculation, of course, and any new VR system should eventually migrate to the PC.  By "revolutionary" I'm talking about a system that should win converts of people who have avoided VR. A good VR system would mesh nicely with some of their other products.  ASOBO makes an interesting augmented reality system so this might not be as crazy as it first sounds.

I wouldn't be surprised at MS developing its own proprietary VR system to go along with XBox Scarlett, but I doubt it would do anything revolutionary to win converts. 

The problem is cost and the current state of the art. The people who haven't bought into VR yet (including me) are looking for three things to get better:

  • Better visual quality -- hIgher resolution, no screen door effect, ability to read all the small print on aircraft gauges and switches, and a wider angle of view
     
  • More comfort -- less weight and bulk, and wireless so we're not dragging a cable behind our heads.
     
  • Lower cost -- ideally, somewhere around the $300 USD price point, although $500 might be more realistic.

Better, "revolutionary" VR to expand beyond the early adopter and wealthy geek market is a technical obstacle right now. Just having the Microsoft name and money behind it isn't enough. Oculus and Vive have plenty of financial backing, and look at the slow progress in their VR systems.
 

Quote

This would be an excellent time to reintroduce their Sidewinder joysticks, suitably upgraded.

That's the hardware-related area where I'm hoping they make a push, and it should be to re-establish force feedback as a standard feature for flight sim support and hardware.

I'm not that interested in a new MS-produced joystick because I've been spoiled by the quality of a Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS set, but man... I'd pay almost any amount of money for a good force-feedback version of the Warthog, and support across the board from flight sims.

 

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Primary sim is X-Plane 11 on Windows 10
i7 6700 4.0 GHz, 32 GB RAM, GTX 1660 ti, 1920x1200 monitor

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If a new VR system from Microsoft had all three points you mentioned, how likely would you be to buy it?  I'm not interested myself for various reasons, but I think others might be who are not currently using VR.

It's not only the Microsoft name and money, it's also the Microsoft marketing muscle which is likely to drive the price down as more people buy it to offset the development costs.  Microsoft has other products that would benefit, but the flight simulator is by far the biggest.

Like I said, this is total speculation, but the more I think about it the more likely I think it is to happen.  We won't know for a while though.

Hook


Larry Hookins

 

Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;

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Oh for sure, I'd buy a Microsoft VR system that hit all those bullet points, but it's not going to happen for $300-$500. The technology exists, and it's being used in business and government applications where the expense can be amortized, or cost is no object (military). As a consumer device at that price point, and hitting those bullet points, we're probably still 10 years away. 

The cost could come down at scale, but that's a Catch 22 where you don't get the scale unless enough people buy it, and enough people won't buy it unless the price comes down.


Primary sim is X-Plane 11 on Windows 10
i7 6700 4.0 GHz, 32 GB RAM, GTX 1660 ti, 1920x1200 monitor

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