I'll just agree to disagree with you. 

I've seen enough in my life that I'm not going to let some "game" bother me enough to get on a soapbox. But I fully respect your right to your opinion. 

BTW, I said Microsoft Store in my other post, but I think, and I am not sure. Joined Xbox Game Pass for the $1.00 first month to see, and I think, you either have the monthly subscription, but there is also a STORE in there too. So I guess I should have said Xbox Game Pass Store, I guess? But I don't work for Microsoft so have no clue. One day we will know.

And also a GUI Mission Creator and the Workshop was awesome in FSW for people creating missions and uploading them and being able to play them. Always new content to play. Yes, I said PLAY 🙂 This is the FUN zone 🙂

Nice how the original poster entered:

YES! ( In caps and with an exclamation point )

No... ( And a simple No )

Too funny 🙂 I think I know how they voted 🙂

Edited June 28, 20196 yr by Learjet777

@pracines

Paul, increase the challenge for yourself.  That's what I do.  Don't force it on everyone else.

I started off in 2007 flying easy stuff, on autopilot, using GPS Direct-To.  Later I was using real world charts and avoiding restricted airspace, then navigating with VOR and NDB but still using autopilot and the GPS.  Later I quit using the GPS, only the radio navaids.

Then I turned off heading hold on the autopilot, then later altitude hold.  The only time I use the autopilot now is with the A2A Stratocruiser and Constellation, and I hand fly the Connie unless I have to leave the computer, which happens occasionally on a 10+ hour flight.  

While I used to use the GPS for situational awareness, recently I've stopped using the GPS entirely, navigating only by what I can see out the window or detect with my nav instruments.  This gets interesting on a VFR flight in P3Dv4 with autogen out to the horizon which hides airports quite effectively.  I've even found myself landing at the wrong airport occasionally.  At some point I started maintaining 1500 feet separation, but I'm not fanatical about that.  And I still fly under the occasional bridge.

If I'd had to fly the way I do now when I first started, I'd toss up my hands and go find a good shooter to play.  Like Steel Beasts.  That's a shooter. 🙂

Is any of this serious enough?  Is FSEconomy serious?  Were the landing challenges in Microsoft Flight serious?  Is the 2000+ nautical mile flight from San Francisco to Honolulu, dead reckoning all but a couple hundred miles at each end, guessing at the wind data, hand flying the whole way... is this serious enough?  Or am I just some kid on the Internet playing a shooter.

I want the various activities we had in Microsoft Flight, not just for myself but for the new people we hope to bring in.  Many of whom will, like me, eventually be doing some serious flying.  When we aren't flying under bridges.

Hook

I just hope FS2020 still supports Simconnect so that FSE (Flight Sim Economy) will work with it.  Built in missions and such would be nice to have too, but if FSE works with it then I'll always have plenty of "game" to encourage me to fly in FS2020.  And plenty to encourage me to buy a LOT of addon planes and scenery too.

16 hours ago, pracines said:

Rick, I understand your perspective, but here are some things to consider:

How does a 747 pilot fly a 747? You think they are born with that knowledge? Surely you have seen the PMDG manuals, and forums filled with genuine questions of flight simmers learning how to fly that rendition of a 747. It does not come easy, and it should not, that's why it's called a simulator. But eventually a simmer could learn how to fly a 747 just like real pilots learn. I flew my first real airplane without anything but a 10 minute brief. My instructor did not have to touch the controls even once. It was a challenge, for the first few moments, steering with my feet.🤪😂 

I don't mean to offend you or anybody else when I take flight simming very seriously. To increase the seriousness, increases the fun (challenge) for me. Its like for example a sport you enjoy; would you find it fun to win against that 3 year old child, or would you rather play with one who has a chance to win? The challenge is more fun and rewarding. You would not even consider playing with a child, and the same is true for me with a flight sim or features in a flight sim.

If honor and respect should not be taken seriously, then nothing matters. But I tell you the truth, Avsim (you) require(s) members to honor and respect the Avsim rules, right? Or why cant we all just have fun cussing each other out? This is "just a flight sim forum" right?, not that big a deal. You see, a whole new light on honor and respect begins to make sense. Should honor and respect apply to Avsim, but not aviation or simulators (the very reason for Avsim's existence)? We have more fun at Avsim because of taking honor and respect seriously.  

Aero-caches are fine as long as aviation is not portrayed/taken as a simple game ("grab a mouse and go"), because it is not. This does not mean that someone couldn't use a realistic sim as a game if they wish; everybody chooses their own path, but for MS to choose it to be a game for people who want realism, then it will fail. I think we all want MSFS to succeed at realism.

I'm very glad Microsoft emphasized the word "simulator" in their recent communication to us.

Fun at parties though 

4 hours ago, Mengy said:

I just hope FS2020 still supports Simconnect so that FSE (Flight Sim Economy) will work with it.  Built in missions and such would be nice to have too, but if FSE works with it then I'll always have plenty of "game" to encourage me to fly in FS2020.  And plenty to encourage me to buy a LOT of addon planes and scenery too.

+1

FSEconomy support will be a determining factor in whether I "migrate" completely to MSFS from my current sim, or just fly it for fun once in a while. FSE is what keeps me interested in flying civilian sims. I have 457 hours and 486 flights in the game so far. 

In FSE right now I'm on a tour of Japan in my PC-12, flown over there from home base in the Pacific Northwest. That might turn into a round-the-world trip.

On another front in FSE, I just sold my Bell 412 based in the UK and bought another one in the USA so I can tour the new Orbx TE Washington scenery. The closest 412 available for sale was in Idaho, so I'm in the process of ferrying it over to the WA coast, finding jobs to pay for the fuel and maintenance along the way.

MS could easily build a similar economic game and mission generator into the new MSFS. I don't think the code is terribly complex, and that would allow using a more updated airport database. Although, it might have to appeal to a wider interest since FSE is primarily light to medium GA planes and doesn't fully support modern airliners. Maybe some combination of virtual airline and Freight Hauler/FSE could work. 

Aero caches from Flight and missions from FSX imho were quite fun and would be even better for less experienced pilots. I would like to see them back.

1 hour ago, Paraffin said:

MS could easily build a similar economic game and mission generator into the new MSFS. I don't think the code is terribly complex, and that would allow using a more updated airport database. Although, it might have to appeal to a wider interest since FSE is primarily light to medium GA planes and doesn't fully support modern airliners. Maybe some combination of virtual airline and Freight Hauler/FSE could work. 

Yeah, I have to wonder if MS has noticed the success of simulations with gameplay like ETS & ATS and might be doing something similar with their new FS2020.  Incorporating an FSE-like element directly into the sim would greatly increase the appeal of the game to a much wider audience.  

I was surprised how much fun I had with aerocaches.  Like stated above, they would be perfect in an arcade version of th enew sim.  But I can see an ATS style thing where you start off as a pilot for others and then you buy your own plane and have your own little airport and then you can buy more planes and more airports in regions as you go ther in the sim. 

I really dont know if a sim can be both great game and great sim.  Is that asking too much?

I just dont want an annoying game that fails you because you went more than five knots down a taxiway or you hit a bump and your passenger complained.  I quickly lost interest in the MS Flight missions and jobs because of knit picking.  but the aerocaches were fun.