1 hour ago, vortex681 said:

P3D - the commercial/defence sector isn't usually too worried about graphics, it's all about content. Plus, there tends to be a lot of inertia in those markets and they prefer to stick with what they know as it's quicker to develop new content in a familiar environment.

Deadstick - it's going to have a very restricted, procedural world with only bush flying. Why would anyone buy this if the new sim could do everything just as well (if not better, in many cases) and also lets you operate anywhere in the real world with the option of using different types of aircraft?

P3D - I agree, but I'm talking long term. My personal guess is that Lockheed will have axed P3D within 5-7 years, but I might be wrong.

Deadstick - It'll be out long before MSFS. If they focus on the game / mission aspects rather than simulation it has the potential to do well. I'll certainly give it a try.
Of course "well" is a relative term. It's a one person team as far as I can tell. 10k copies is doing well for an indie game.

XP could compete by simply doing what their customers have been asking for forever. Fix the ground physics, revamp the weather engine, redo the cloud system, clean up the plausible world scenery, make it easier to use orthos (perhaps a built in importation system), fix the atmospherics/haze simulation, use OSM data to place autogen by default (not just building heights and roads), completely revamp the ATC for VFR/IFR, etc.

Yeah, they won't the photogrammetry stuff, but it could still be a great experience.

The problem is, Austin doesn't care about any of that compared to yet again tweaking the flight model. For that reason, I have little faith they will compete with MSFS.

 

Edited October 9, 20196 yr by bonchie

1 hour ago, vortex681 said:

Deadstick [...] Why would anyone buy this [...]?

Because it sounds like a lot of fun?

8 minutes ago, Airmail-Pilot said:

Because it sounds like a lot of fun?

No, flight simmers are super serious people who want super serious experiences for their hobby which is definitely not a video game. Fun ist strictly verboten.

5 minutes ago, Airmail-Pilot said:

Because it sounds like a lot of fun?

But for how long? It's a very limited, procedural (not real world) operating area and is likely to be comfortably surpassed by MSFS. As much as I like bush planes, I can already fly them in reasonable scenery and weather in the existing sims so why buy Deadstick rather than waiting for MSFS?

20 minutes ago, stevphfeniey said:

No, flight simmers are super serious people who want super serious experiences for their hobby which is definitely not a video game. Fun ist strictly verboten.

I truly like your sense of humor.

On a more serious note, I'm a bit of both.  I occasionally like to shoot an IFR approach to minimums to stay fresh "on the gauges" and I also like the low-and-slow, sight-seeing flights.

Both sims will have a place in my future unless the shortcomings are excessive.

20 minutes ago, vortex681 said:

But for how long? It's a very limited, procedural (not real world) operating area [...]

Who knows?  Probably long enough.

Have you been in the sim world long enough to remember "Rescue Air 911" for (MS)FS4?  That was a lot of fun too and was a quite limited world to explore.

7 hours ago, Noooch said:

How could they compete? I honnestly don t know, maybe on other aspects but they will have to be reeealy creative. 

I mean in term of weather or aerodynamics what can they do more ?

We don't know yet how good the dynamic weather modeling will be in MSFS, only that it looks good. 

Another sim could compete by offering a fully 3D modeled "weather world," something that we don't have yet in any sim as far as I know. This would mean discrete 3D models of individual CB's and weather fronts, instead of a stacked layer system (which it sounds like MSFS might be using, by promoting X number of cloud layers).

Full 3D weather might not be possible without too heavy a load on the CPU, and there's a limit to what can be done with the available data. For example, a METAR might indicate thunderstorms, but not exact location. Storms and weather fronts are shown on local radar where it exists, but flight sims don't directly access that realtime data (yet). There would have to be some guesswork in making it look realistic. 
 

Quote

Simulate 10000 surfaces per aircraft ? This makes no sense.

Flight model realism in the new MSFS is a complete unknown so far, except that they seem to be taking light GA stalls and spins seriously (which is great). This could be an area for competition depending on what types of aircraft are easy or difficult to model in the new sim. Helicopters for example... both XP and DCS have very good and still improving helicopter flight models. It might take a while for MSFS and its 3rd party developers to catch up. 

For my part, I think the coexistance of P3D and MFS2020 will be longer that I though and that P3D will remain my primary platform:

1) No Seasons

2) No snow precipitations

2) No ATC

3) No AI reusability of 3pp AI planes. No ingestion via vPilot or via UTL.

I will therefore probability continue buying addons for P3D after MFS2020 release for a while.

Then, it goes back to the issue that froogle raised in his first video about market fragmentation.

Edited October 9, 20196 yr by vincentrouleau

22 hours ago, bonchie said:

XP could compete by simply doing what their customers have been asking for forever. Fix the ground physics, revamp the weather engine, redo the cloud system, clean up the plausible world scenery, make it easier to use orthos (perhaps a built in importation system), fix the atmospherics/haze simulation, use OSM data to place autogen by default (not just building heights and roads), completely revamp the ATC for VFR/IFR, etc.

So redo their entire sim basically. If they manage to fix all that then they might as well release it as Xplane 12, the same sim but with lots of bug fixes lol. 
 

I still think that even after all that they won’t be able to compete with MSFS because the sheer manpower and talent behind MSFS is far superior compared to what LR is employing. 

How to compete and stay alive on the market against MSFS2020? Price, obviously.

Do you have any idea how much is this MSFS2020 going to cost? Did you hear about "free life-time upgrades"? Well, it ain't going to be free...

I imagine the market will be divided in "hard core ready to spend lots of money on this" and the rest. Like everything else. I can still buy a good Toyota in a world where fantastic but expensive BMW are available.

And this, IMHO, is a good thing, because different people wants (and can afford) different things.

1 hour ago, FAZZ3 said:

So redo their entire sim basically. If they manage to fix all that then they might as well release it as Xplane 12, the same sim but with lots of bug fixes lol. 
 

I still think that even after all that they won’t be able to compete with MSFS because the sheer manpower and talent behind MSFS is far superior compared to what LR is employing. 

I was talking about XP12 in that instance, not just updating XP11. 

If they want to compete, they have to have all that stuff ready this coming year in XP12. 

21 hours ago, Paraffin said:

We don't know yet how good the dynamic weather modeling will be in MSFS, only that it looks good. 

Another sim could compete by offering a fully 3D modeled "weather world," something that we don't have yet in any sim as far as I know...

Flight model realism in the new MSFS is a complete unknown so far, except that they seem to be taking light GA stalls and spins seriously (which is great). This could be an area for competition depending on what types of aircraft are easy or difficult to model in the new sim. Helicopters for example... both XP and DCS have very good and still improving helicopter flight models. It might take a while for MSFS and its 3rd party developers to catch up. 

We do kind of know those things though. We know the new system uses things like humidity, dew point, atmospheric conditions, wind conditions, etc. to dynamically build cloud structures. Storms will build over time and dissipate. Even rainbows happen when the conditions call for it. This was all confirmed at the creator event and people did test out different areas to see if it matched the real world. 

I guess we don't know for sure about the flight model, but 1000 surfaces are simulated and everyone who tried it said it felt great. Sounds good to me. Certainly sounds as good as anything we've got in the other sims.

Edited October 10, 20196 yr by bonchie

MSFS2020 is only gonna have some sort of monopoly if other developers don't step up their game. This is how the free market works, and it is hopefully going to be good for us consumers in the end. The other developers need to take big leaps towards future techs and do it soon unless they are going to be left by the wayside. 

On 10/9/2019 at 9:26 AM, vortex681 said:

But for how long? It's a very limited, procedural (not real world) operating area and is likely to be comfortably surpassed by MSFS. As much as I like bush planes, I can already fly them in reasonable scenery and weather in the existing sims so why buy Deadstick rather than waiting for MSFS?

There are some niche games/sims out there. There’s one about off-road industrial vehicles. They simulate extra mud physics.

Granted, FS2020 may end up with addons that match that experience and I wouldn’t be surprised if Deadstick folds.