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tarere

MSFS as a global world rendition platform : Earth + Atmoshpere

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TLDR ; We don't need a new flight sim, we need a 3D replication of the whole real world and atmosphere so we can build any app on it (including flight sims). 

Several years ago I've come to the realisation that the market does not need another fully packaged Flight Sim version. Why ? Because it is too wide a topic so it can only get an "ok" experience by compromising everything. So the one-box software have to cover : scenery, weather, aerodynamics, airplanes, cockpits, trafic, ATC, etc all you can think about flight sim but in a kind of crappy way. The result is ultimately average as it can't be anything else because every topic require strong specialization.

So what do the market need ? A visual reproduction of the world as it is now and as it evolves : Earth + Atmosphere.

To illustrate the whole point, here is an hypothetical scenario, let says you are a dev studio and MICROSOFT contact you and tell you : "hey can you build the new FS". What would you do ?

This is what I would do exactly : "Yes MS I'll do it, but we're not building a Flight Sim, we're building the whole real world in 3D and we'll licence it to every industry and application you can think of"

Think about it : the base "plateform of everything", the ultimate "engyne" ;-). The WORLD AS AN API.

The clever solution MS has come up with creating true ground material references for the whole world (aerial and sat photos coupled with Azure AI) and wrapping around it a simulated weather-atmosphere is spot on. The best part is you get updated world automatically because the data is streamed so it can be constantly updated and never obsolete. The replicated world evolve as the real one.

Now we see this open world as a flight simulator, from a few hundred to several thousands feets. In 5 to 10 yers, with help of AI and strong computation, nothing prevent us from imagining a "GTA like" procedurals details at ground level (avatar mode) based on ground photo (think Street View). The trick is to think ahead in building a complete real world in layers down to 1cm def.

From now let's call our project WORLD SIM.

So you want a car sim ? No problem, a specialized game studio develop a car sim using WORLD SIM as a base. Now you only have to care about driving dynamics and physics as the visuals are enterly defered to the base world. No wasting time on the visuals display, it's done !

GTA VI ? Yes, how about in your very own city ?

Train sim ? So easy. Every railroad on earth etc.

But the strongest part would be commercial and professionnal applications built around WORLD SIM, market is hudge and probably kind of unlimited. Every app need to acquire a licence use of WORLD SIM as a subscription because data is updated constantly and stored in the cloud, remember that is a feature not a drawback, and cost is negligeable compared to value.

Going back to flight simulation. This will be controversial. I can't help to think that a lot of simmer are so short-sighted on MSFS work. Does MSFS need an ATC out of the box ? The hell no, it is so specialized, there should be no waste of manpower for this toy, one have to let a dedicated 3rd party program a good ATC on top of WORLD SIM.

Does MSFS need a state of the art airliner out of the box ? NO, it does not, except if it is provided and made by a 3rd party.
Why ? Because replicating a Boeing or Airbus is years of specialized hard work, work which has NOTHING in common with WORLD SIM.
Think about a product like Aerowinx - Precision Simulator 10, you have a full featured Boeing 747-400 standalone sim, the sim sends X, Y, Z position on the WORLD SIM Api and that's it, you get the most real external view you can think of, with weather and the best systems and flight model for this aircraft. The sim can tap on the atmoshperic Api of WORLD SIM to compute required flight model. You have basically a professionnal level study setup, not a downgraded FS version built on "compromise".
Staying in aviation business, what about all the FFS full flight system and other Flight Training Devices ? Getting visuals right is not there business, dynamics and systems is, they plug the WOLD SIM visuals and here they go !
Did I mention the potential military use ?

Does MSFS needs VR. Sure 1st thing it does ! And I don't use and don't plan to use VR anytime soon, that is not the point, the point is that VR belong to visuals representation of the world so it belongs to our projects and all the applications around.

You're starting to get it. You see unlimited potential use of WORLD SIM. You understand WORLD SIM is a platform you can inject anything in it, be it road trafic, peoples, planes, cars, animals, etc. Any application which need a real world rendition.
And you're starting to wonder how that platform does not exists from now. Hey what about shops, hotels, commercials, etc.

Because WORLD SIM is an open world with an open source SDK, anyone can build anything on it, you can even crowd-source the data augmentation like openstreetmap would, the only thing is the core plateform is to be licensed to be used (so free licensing for certain use, commercial for others, personal license for individuals and games, etc).

And so, Asobo, you're not far from having built this open world. This is a good start, a first layer, think about it and the future, think beyond a short sighted STEAM flight sim game, go VERY VERY BIG ! I would. That's also why a streaming world and no version for your software is the way to go, constant background update, and hell yeah a subscription, there is no other way around : THIS IS A FEATURE.
MS, you've done it with .net Framework, a common platform to build upon it, you've open sourced .net core with great success, let's do it with the world.
I'm commercial pilot and C# developper, working also on FTD, i do consulting too if you need ! 🙂

I think this is an interesting topic to dig, what do YOU think ?

TLDR ; We don't need a new flight sim, we need a 3D replication of the whole real world and atmosphere so we can build any app on it (including flight sims).

Edited by tarere

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This is where Microsoft was going with FSX and their ESP commercial project. The next Train Sim was built on the same engine, before it was cancelled too. Will be interesting to see if, or how, they go down that road again. I have a feeling this is exactly what they are planning on with the new engine they have been building.

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you talking about teh Oasis.


100% VR flyer - Valve Index & RTX 2080 ti

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55 minutes ago, tarere said:

I think this is an interesting topic to dig, what do YOU think ?

...well that you should be in the sales department😄

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There is a huge intellectual property to the world and environment. Great potential and games are only the beginning. Msft get it's an IP investment built on all the other data assets. Google may have similar data but not the live world environment like FS.   And one day this title may grow into a lot more, MMO Earth Sim with aircraft, driving sim, boating sim etc all built in. MSWS --> Microsoft World Simulator.

Edited by Greazer
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This new technology could be licensed to Lockheed Martin as a new version of what the "ESP" was and they could then, for their clients, build a P3D v5. I would assume that this would also be attractive for use in real/Level-D simulators that the airlines use (the scenery/world/weather part).


Siggy Schwarz

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This idea was around these forums for weeks now.

I just don't agree with you about ATC, who do you think can make it right? Some 3rd party with limited resources which will only be focused on profit? No

Asobo and Microsoft are just about to make it happen with their talent, their (almost) unlimited resources and their unlimited acces and knowledge to the game engine.

Just let them do it!

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6 hours ago, siggy said:

This new technology could be licensed to Lockheed Martin as a new version of what the "ESP" was and they could then, for their clients, build a P3D v5. I would assume that this would also be attractive for use in real/Level-D simulators that the airlines use (the scenery/world/weather part).

My reasoned conviction is that Lockheed Martin has all it takes to make a next gen sim scenery background  : imagery, AI etc. 

Only thing, maybe they don’t have the freshness of mind of Asobo. We’ll see. I can’t wait to have a peek at v5.  

Edited by domkle

Dominique

Simming since 1981 - Prepar3D v3 on a 4770 @ 4.4 GHz and a 1080 @ 2560*1440 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals - My YouTube Channel

 

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Actually, the last times I used FSX and P3D, as much as XP11, was mostly for "Wordl browsing" for Aerowinx PSX or ELITE XTS.

It works great with these sims which do not have anywaher near a out-of-windshield view of the World around.

At the Aerowinx forums it's already being though of http://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=5423.0


Heartedly playing War Thunder ( in simulator mode only, of course... )

Best experience in a flight simulation game since MS FLIGHT in 2012, and CYAC in the mid nineties of last Century !!!

 

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7 minutes ago, dongdongliushui said:

 virtual tourism too.

Absolutely, MS should sell to hotels an insertion into the sim : they would model the building, put it in the sim and a tag would flash above it when a simmer would be near. Of course, that could also be done with convention centers with helipads etc.

 


Dominique

Simming since 1981 - Prepar3D v3 on a 4770 @ 4.4 GHz and a 1080 @ 2560*1440 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals - My YouTube Channel

 

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14 minutes ago, domkle said:

Absolutely, MS should sell to hotels an insertion into the sim : they would model the building, put it in the sim and a tag would flash above it when a simmer would be near.

And then you would be willing to pay for a version without these ads :-).

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Siggy Schwarz

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11 hours ago, Superdelphinus said:

Not many games actually happen in the real world. 

There are actually, such as the truck simulator. I think there would be a good market to have the boating simulator and car/truck driving too. You can practice your journey in advance. Also the farming simulator could be in it too. A big MMO sim in the real world, it would be cool.

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One indie group started a planet earth engine and it's called Outerra. They've been slowly evolving it since few years now, but of course, they do not have the budget to develop it to the level of what Asobo did with their engine...

Yet despite these baby steps in the development process of Outerra, I believe at least one company licensed it and it was for military training applications if I am not mistaken...

Nonetheless, the project is still ongoing and I am still following the development with my modest contribution that gave me access to their Ante World Tech Demo:

 

Edited by Claviateur
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