2 hours ago, Paul_ said:

Incidentally there has been no mention by anyone on here about the IFly 737 for P3D v5 and whether there will be a new version or indeed the current version will work in the new simulator?  ....and whether we have to put our hands in our pockets ...

Well, this is a PMDG thread.

You'll need to open your wallets for a v5 compatible version of the iFly 737.
Here's what was written on their Flight1 support forum:
 

Quote

If you point the P3Dv4 installer to P3Dv5 and install the aircraft you will find the aircraft will not work. The gauges are blank etcetera, colors look over saturated, textures look to dark in certain areas and there are anomalies..............

 

We have decided to do an "upgrade" to the iFly 737NG for P3D v5. To make changes based on what changed in LM's P3D v5

[...]

So we are not porting a P3D v4 product to P3D v5 and asking for money, we are doing a substantial rebuild and for that reason this will be a paid upgrade.

 

We have updated the iFly 737NG free of charge when LM released v2, v3, v4, (even though we had to rework the product from 32bit to 64bit going to v4 and later providing a High Definition Texture pack update with Service Pack 3.2.3.3)

 

And another post!

[14APR20] Moving to Prepar3D v5? READ THIS

Today, 07:58

 

Captains,

Many of you are planning to make the switch from Prepar3D v4 (P4D) to Prepar3D v5 (P5D) today.

Here are some things we would like you to know. Please read through all of it, so that we don't have the forum flooded with the same question over-and-over, thanks!

Compatibility:
In order to run PMDG products in P5D, we will need to rebuild certain key pieces of each product in order to strip out problem areas, replace them with correctly implemented features, and capitalize on many of the new efficiencies that are to be gained in this new platform. This process of doing this is underway, but will take some time.

Getting Our Products Rebuilt:
We are in the process of preparing new version builds of our NGXu product line, the 747, 777 and DC-6 respectively- each updated to be compatible with P5D. These builds are going to take a litle time to roll out to you and your patience is appreciated. The first to roll out will be the 747- and we are hoping to have that to you within days. The others will follow swiftly thereafter.

No Charge for Entry:
As previously announced, moving from P4D to P5D will be a free update. (Please don't confuse free with easy, however. There is a significant amount of work we have to do in the background for you... and this work takes time.)

Timeline Expectations:
This is hard to pin down, as these rebuilds are not simply a matter of recompiling the installer with awareness of P5D. There is quite a bit more that goes into them, including complete refactors of certain functions, lighting, etc. These things take time.

Manual Dragon-Drop:
(Yes- I call it that on purpose... Laugh- it is funny! ) Enterprising users who know enough about how products are structured into P4D will probably be able to manually drag-and-drop all of the necessary files over to P5D. Since we do not make any effort to prevent our product from running when version numbers change- you will find that the P4D versions will run quite happily in P5D- which is just grand, but be warned: There are many things that need to be adjusted in order for the product to run well.

Beware of Dog:
Anyone who feels enterprising and wishes to drag files around in hopes if seeing our products in P5D: You do so at your own risk. We will not provide, nor will we even answer questions related to any problems you create while doing this. We will not reset license keys for you because you locked yourself out due to impatience, nor will we provide even a hint of suggestion on what you might be doing wrong or how to fix your installation if things go awry. Generally we think it best that you wait until we give you a proper working installer and then you will be all set.

Yes... We are probably aware of that...
We have already seen a number of users flooding our technical support team with questions along the lines of "I see the new P5D has <insert something> will PMDG <insert related request>." I have instructed our support team to reply to you politely with the following phrase:

"As with all of the platforms that we have worked with during the past 22 years, we will evaluate what features we can use to enhance our excellent product quality. We will communicate those things to you as we accomplish them. Thank you for your interest."

So now you don't have to go to support to ask them. You already have your answer. No- all of these things won't be in the first round of installers... we will bring them to you later when we have actually had time to implement them.

The Order of This and That:
(Which sounds like a great, Genesis (circa Peter Gabriel period) song title, doesn't it?) You may be wondering what order in which to expect things, such as our already discussed product updates that are rolling out, etc. We don't know at this juncture. Simply focusing on one airplane at a time is the best for our team but it will slow down the P5D update schedule so it isn't optimal- but we really don't even know if it is necessary at this juncture. Many many moving parts and we will push updates and new installers to you as we have them ready.

Thank you for your patience during this transition period- we are a small team and w are working through the tasks just as quickly as we can.

Oh one last thing: As you see folks around the various simming sites discussing details of what we are doing, or what we are not doing, etc- please feel free to link them to this post so that they can also have the latest, factual information!

Robert S. Randazzo
PMDG Simulations
http://www.pmdg.com
 

Contrary to the opinions of some people, I reckon that a lot of work will have been required to develop the NGXu. That being the case, I totally understand their decision to cut off support for the original NGX where Prepar3D v5 is concerned. I am not going to criticise them for this, despite the significant cost to myself if I decide to upgrade. I will continue to use P3Dv4 (which I am thoroughly enjoying at the moment) until I am able to save the necessary funds required to purchase P3Dv5, the NGXu, and the 600/700 expansion pack.

14 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

FS Elite just expressed an opinion as anyone is entitled to do. Remember there are no right or wrong opinions, just different ones. What I quoted from their review was their opinion.

12 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I don’t need to prove anything to you.

In general, yes, of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. But in this case you can see the issue with opinions. There is a line that separates purely personal opinion from conjecture that exceeds that personal sphere. In this case, the 'opinion' about the NGXu being the NGX in disguise is not merely a personal opinion, but is conjecture that has morphed into the accusation that PMDG are lying when they say it's new from the ground up to rip people off. So, in this case, you absolutely have to prove that. What makes this even more absurd is that there is no way the average customer could possibly know, neither is there any proof nor any kind of clue even remotely supporting that conjecture. So the question becomes: Is this kind of 'opinion' okay? I don't think so. Show me proof or even a hint and I'll happily rethink.

To be fair to FSElite, I think what they mean by "essentially the same aircraft" is just that it's the same aircraft type which is simulated. If they didn't however, that would be even worse than the average customer making that claim because they are supposed to provide an objective review to help people decide whether to buy it or not. And they have no way of knowing, either.

I usually ignore this topic, but I've asked people a few times what it is that they think supports this claim - and I've never gotten a reply, they just went silent or ignored that part, and I've never seen any compelling argument in any other discussions. And I think that speaks for itself, because it really wouldn't be an effort to provide a quick explanation. I also never heard anyone saying that the newest 747 is just the older one in disguise, but the NGXu definitely is, for some reason.

I just find it concerning that so many people nowadays make baseless claims and even accusations without proof or hint and even sometimes with no knowledge about the matter and it doesn't even seem to bother them and it gets spread until others assume it's true. I wouldn't be surprised if there is number of people by now who actually held off from buying the product because they kept reading it's just the NGX with lipstick. At this point, people will make things up just to criticize and complain. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty.

Again - I'm just quoting you because you brought it up, this isn't directed at you specifically.

 

Quote

You say...”There is a lot more that is new to the NGXu instead of PBR and an EFB...”. Please tell me what because I looked through the changes and found nothing that was fundamentally different from the NGX. Split winglets perhaps? Improved flight model? Am I as a non-pilot going to know how much better it is than the NGX which I consider very good?

(Also quoted from Ray's reply.)

• All new system simulation, utilizing the latest PMDG system simulation engine.
• Enhanced flight physics.
• Addition of rigid body physics affecting flex/vibration propagation to wing and tail surfaces.
• Improved flight control systems.
• Electronic Flight Bag with Navigraph Integration.
• High resolution cockpit displays
• New equipment options for cockpit instrumentation, fuel system changes and more.
• Changes to 737 options packages reflecting real world changes since NGX was first offered in 2011.
• Expanded failures simulation to cover nearly all QRH scenarios.
• PMDG Global Flight Operations compatibility (when PMDG GFO is made live in late 2019!)
• Native PMDG datalink simulation for offline flying (similar to 777 and 747)
• Driveable TPX200s pushback tug with user controlled steering and speed.
• Base Package includes 737-800, 737-900 and 737-900ER models with standard wing, blended winglet and split scimitar winglet options where offered on the actual airframe.
• All new, high definition sound suite recorded on a fully instrumented test airplane.
• Sounds balanced and layered using advanced studio technologies in order to provide the most lifelike representation possible of the soundscape on a 737 airliner.
• Enhanced PMDG Sound Engine for immersive audio experience on the flight deck.
• New PMDG Operations Center 2.0
• Entirely New virtual cockpit built just for Prepar3D with hundreds of new details including high resolution textures and PBR support.
• Dynamic lighting throughout, including panel floods, chart lights, map lights, CB panel illumination, Grimes lights and dome lights.
• Many new equipment options reflecting changes to the global 737 fleet.
• Optional auxiliary fuel tanks/panel. (for use in 900ER and subsequent BBJ/BBJ2 offerings)
• Automatic eyepoint adjustment for HGS and non HGS views (with the ability to control and disable from FMS)
• New LED external lighting options for all fleet types., including the implementation of pulse lighting.
• Entirely new exterior models with more details and high resolution 4096x4096 textures.
• PBR enabled out of the box, each surface has accurate reflective properties, especially on bare metal surfaces where rivets have a different reflective property compared to a polished surface.
• Higher resolution normal maps, see rivets and panel lines in rich detail.
• Smooth animated flight controls and landing gear operation.
• Boeing Sky Interior cabin model with cool blue LED lighting.
• Accurate flight dynamics and performance data for each model type including Blended and Split Scimitar winglet.
• 737-800 and 900 models with different wingtip options including standard wingtip, blended and split scimitar winglets, including the 737-900ER model.
• Ground Service vehicle fleet to support the 737 during turnarounds at airports all around the world.
• Real time refueling based on accurate Boeing data.
• Global fuel density model as introduced with the 747.Fuel densities will closely match actual fuel density as reported globally by world operators.
• Fluid flow simulation for hydraulic, pneumatic and fuel systems.

Copied from the announcement. Seems like more than just PBR and an EFB. Not sure how you see nothing fundamentally different from the NGX.

(Standard disclaimer: No, I'm not a PMDG groupie. And I really don't have much else to do being locked down )

 

 

Leonardo maddogX will be a paid upgrade to v5 as well. 

Goodness, everyone else is charging when PMDG is not. 

This has to turn avsim inside out hahahaha

37 minutes ago, threegreen said:

In general, yes, of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. But in this case you can see the issue with opinions. There is a line that separates purely personal opinion from conjecture that exceeds that personal sphere. In this case, the 'opinion' about the NGXu being the NGX in disguise is not merely a personal opinion, but is conjecture that has morphed into the accusation that PMDG are lying when they say it's new from the ground up to rip people off. So, in this case, you absolutely have to prove that. What makes this even more absurd is that there is no way the average customer could possibly know, neither is there any proof nor any kind of clue even remotely supporting that conjecture. So the question becomes: Is this kind of 'opinion' okay? I don't think so. Show me proof or even a hint and I'll happily rethink.

To be fair to FSElite, I think what they mean by "essentially the same aircraft" is just that it's the same aircraft type which is simulated. If they didn't however, that would be even worse than the average customer making that claim because they are supposed to provide an objective review to help people decide whether to buy it or not. And they have no way of knowing, either.

I usually ignore this topic, but I've asked people a few times what it is that they think supports this claim - and I've never gotten a reply, they just went silent or ignored that part, and I've never seen any compelling argument in any other discussions. And I think that speaks for itself, because it really wouldn't be an effort to provide a quick explanation. I also never heard anyone saying that the newest 747 is just the older one in disguise, but the NGXu definitely is, for some reason.

I just find it concerning that so many people nowadays make baseless claims and even accusations without proof or hint and even sometimes with no knowledge about the matter and it doesn't even seem to bother them and it gets spread until others assume it's true. I wouldn't be surprised if there is number of people by now who actually held off from buying the product because they kept reading it's just the NGX with lipstick. At this point, people will make things up just to criticize and complain. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty.

Copied from the announcement. Seems like more than just PBR and an EFB. Not sure how you see nothing fundamentally different from the NGX.

(Standard disclaimer: No, I'm not a PMDG groupie. And I really don't have much else to do being locked down )

I’ve had to think if it’s worth replying to this but I’ve decided to because you appear to have accused me of saying things that I haven’t.

“In this case, the 'opinion' about the NGXu being the NGX in disguise is not merely a personal opinion, but is conjecture that has morphed into the accusation that PMDG are lying when they say it's new from the ground up to rip people off. So, in this case, you absolutely have to prove that.”

Firstly, I’ve never accused anyone of lying. There may be new features but they are of no interest to me. Like reworking all the graphics to give it a new clean look. Or improving the dynamic lighting. Again, no interest. I fly in daylight - always. And I suspect most of the work was in the EFB which again, I don’t need.

So yes, whilst they may have written replacement code and supplied better cockpit images that is not something I’m prepared to pay a lot of money for especially when I’ve only had the NGX for 15 months.

If, for example, the flight deck instrumentation had been radically changed to something like a 787 I would have been tempted. But that wasn’t done because it’s not how the instruments look.

What you have to consider is PMDG are doing this for a living I suspect. They’re not part timers who also have a full time job. So in that respect they have to keep producing or the coffers dry up. Bit like FS Labs who are definitely full time. Thats why you rarely get a discount.

I’ve looked through that features list several times and the number of things that appeals to me is small. So ask yourself, would you buy an updated version of the same aircraft (that’s what the small u stands for of course)  if so little actually appealed to you? My answer was no. I’m sure yours would be the same.

If I’d waited another 10 months the option to buy the NGX would have disappeared and I’d have bought the NGXu instead and been pleased it was being made available for v5 gratis. I guess my timing (or lack of it) was the biggest problem.

14 minutes ago, ahsmatt7 said:

Leonardo maddogX will be a paid upgrade to v5 as well. 

Goodness, everyone else is charging when PMDG is not. 

This has to turn avsim inside out hahahaha

This thread is a bit ironic, as it's having a go at PMDG for charging for updates when in fact history has proved that they're one of the devs who aren't doing this (Leonardo, iFly etc).

 

1 minute ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I’ve had to think if it’s worth replying to this but I’ve decided to because you appear to have accused me of saying things that I haven’t.

“In this case, the 'opinion' about the NGXu being the NGX in disguise is not merely a personal opinion, but is conjecture that has morphed into the accusation that PMDG are lying when they say it's new from the ground up to rip people off. So, in this case, you absolutely have to prove that.”

Firstly, I’ve never accused anyone of lying. There may be new features but they are of no interest to me. Like reworking all the graphics to give it a new clean look. Or improving the dynamic lighting. Again, no interest. I fly in daylight - always. And I suspect most of the work was in the EFB which again, I don’t need.

So yes, whilst they may have written replacement code and supplied better cockpit images that is not something I’m prepared to pay a lot of money for especially when I’ve only had the NGX for 15 months.

If, for example, the flight deck instrumentation had been radically changed to something like a 787 I would have been tempted. But that wasn’t done because it’s not how the instruments look.

What you have to consider is PMDG are doing this for a living I suspect. They’re not part timers who also have a full time job. So in that respect they have to keep producing or the coffers dry up. Bit like FS Labs who are definitely full time. Thats why you rarely get a discount.

I’ve looked through that features list several times and the number of things that appeals to me is small. So ask yourself, would you buy an updated version of the same aircraft (that’s what the small u stands for of course)  if so little actually appealed to you? My answer was no. I’m sure yours would be the same.

If I’d waited another 10 months the option to buy the NGX would have disappeared and I’d have bought the NGXu instead and been pleased it was being made available for v5 gratis. I guess my timing (or lack of it) was the biggest problem.

Ray, it's a bloody expensive aircraft - like everything from PMDG - but I did update and FWIW I really enjoy flying it. The reason I don't regret the purchase is because, for me, the 737 is my most-flown plane by far (I'm not sure it's my favorite, but is very practical). So despite the steep initial price, I do get go value for money out of it, much more so than planes that cost 5 times less which end up getting put in the boneyard after a test flight or two. 

11 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

Ray, it's a bloody expensive aircraft - like everything from PMDG - but I did update and FWIW I really enjoy flying it. The reason I don't regret the purchase is because, for me, the 737 is my most-flown plane by far (I'm not sure it's my favorite, but is very practical). So despite the steep initial price, I do get go value for money out of it, much more so than planes that cost 5 times less which end up getting put in the boneyard after a test flight or two. 

Rob, if I knew I would definitely be staying with P3D I would probably reluctantly buy it. But I’m in limbo land as I’m waiting for FS Labs to decide which sim they will develop a 64-bit Concorde for. They could take another year to decide as the Airbus fleet is far more important to them financially.

Buying now sort of locks me into v5 and if they decide on MFS then it’s money wasted as I won’t run two sims.

I fly the NGX a lot. Currently in Sydney on leg 30 of a world tour. But Concorde is my real love. 

@Ray Proudfoot I was actually looking up some stuff about the SSTSim concorde earlier today and was surprised to see your name come up! The post was from back in 2005 :)

@rob169, I never owned that version. I started with Concorde-X by FS Labs around 2006 which was their first aircraft. It remains very close to my heart.

Edited April 14, 20206 yr by Quasimodo

4 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I’ve had to think if it’s worth replying to this but I’ve decided to because you appear to have accused me of saying things that I haven’t.

You said in your last post that you know I'm not directing it at you. I also noticed when you said you were just quoting from FSElite and it wasn't your view. And I literally said in my response above I'm only quoting you because you happened to bring it up and that I was, again, not directing it at you. I'm sorry if I wasn't as eloquent as I thought, but when did I accuse you of anything? I was talking about that NGXu rumor in general which seems to have been repeated even by FSElite which you quoted.

The only part that I directed at you was when you said the NGXu rumor was an opinion which has no right or wrong, to which I replied that I don't think an 'opinion' is okay any longer when it turns into an accusation without any basis, because at that point it leaves that personal-only sphere since it accuses someone else and therefore should better be of substance instead of pure conjecture. But I know it's not your opinion because I noted when you said that earlier. Perhaps I shouldn't have quoted you to make that clearer.

4 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

There may be new features but they are of no interest to me.

[...]

So yes, whilst they may have written replacement code and supplied better cockpit images that is not something I’m prepared to pay a lot of money for especially when I’ve only had the NGX for 15 months.

[...]

So ask yourself, would you buy an updated version of the same aircraft (that’s what the small u stands for of course)  if so little actually appealed to you? My answer was no. I’m sure yours would be the same.

You're right, I don't pay for something that doesn't appeal to me. And neither should you. When did I say you should? I replied with the list of changes because I thought you seemed to say there isn't anything fundamentally different, but there is a lot actually. If you say there is but it just doesn't appeal to you that's perfectly fine of course. Maybe we just talked past each other.

 

 

4 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Rob, if I knew I would definitely be staying with P3D I would probably reluctantly buy it. But I’m in limbo land as I’m waiting for FS Labs to decide which sim they will develop a 64-bit Concorde for. They could take another year to decide as the Airbus fleet is far more important to them financially.

Buying now sort of locks me into v5 and if they decide on MFS then it’s money wasted as I won’t run two sims.

I fly the NGX a lot. Currently in Sydney on leg 30 of a world tour. But Concorde is my real love. 

It has not escaped my attention that concorde is your real love. 🙂

@threegreen, the problem with forum discussions is they can be misconstrued as has clearly happened here. I think we both know how each of us feels about this situation so there seems little point in continuing it.

Let’s leave it there eh? 

I just read about the problem with the portability of the NGX in P3Dv5.

So, I bought the NGX once for FSX (base+600/700).

Then I bought a second time the same for P3Dv4 at a special PMDG discount, a first in history to my knowledge (thank you for that). It was August 13, 2019!

Now I see that I should go back to the checkout for a new version that does not interest me for the good reason that PMDG does not want to do a new installer...

My state of mind is that I'm finally not very surprised...Cough, cough...Never again with that!

Richard.

 

Edited April 14, 20206 yr by DrumsArt