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V5 HF2 arriving early next week

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1 hour ago, G-RFRY said:

That to me is the problem on Avsim now you can criticize any sim you like as long as it`s not one that not released yet you will get flamed, how times have changed on Avsim  FSW another MS linked product got slated as soon as it was announced before anyone had seen it that was OK.

Ray, If someone had come to this forum in 2012 and told us to ditch FSX/Prepar3d for Flight, they should have received the same reaction.

I'm super excited for MSFS, but it is never helpful to go into a forum for enthusiasts of a certain product and tell them their product is rubbish!

It's also a thread about the v5 HF2, so the comment was out of place (and has, of course, been retracted by the poster).

I've nothing against a vigorous debate about the merits of Prepar3d v5 vs MSFS, but it needs its own thread. Personally, I'm a fan of trying out all the sims, and using each for what it does best.

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Rob

Sim rig: Intel Core i9 9900K @ 5GHz, Asus ROG Maximus XI Code, MSI 2080 Ti, GSkill DDR4 32 GB, NZXT Kraken. 

Current sims: P3D v5, MSFS, X-plane 11, Aerofly FS2 and DCS. 

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"There are three simple rules for making a smooth landing. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are."

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26 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

We're getting off topic, but my advice is to move away from the idea that you need to tweak everything. This isn't FSX, LM built their sim engine for modern, multithreaded hardware.

If you have hyperthreading, leave it on. Turning off hyperthreading only makes sense if you're pushing for an extreme overclock. A stable, moderate overclock is what you want here.

TL;DR  Keep it simple. The only "tweak" that reliably improves performance is new hardware!

Pretty bad advice. I have a 9900KS water cooled at 5GhZ. With HT on I get stutters, long frames, whatever you want to call them. If I add an AM I can eliminate 90% of the stutters. 

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28 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Pretty bad advice. I have a 9900KS water cooled at 5GhZ. With HT on I get stutters, long frames, whatever you want to call them. If I add an AM I can eliminate 90% of the stutters. 

Bad advice? Your opinion is based on your single install, and there was clearly a serious problem with either this or your system (or you are just obsessed with stutters). Some of your selected recent comments on the matter:

  • "Spot on, the problem is the software. The mirage of endless ‘solutions’ in here comical. "
  • "All of this work. Did it ever occur to anyone, maybe, just maybe, the sim itself is just ‘broke’? Don’t have this problem with other sims."
  • "A quick google search will show you a decade worth of posts relating to stutters and hitches and whatever else you want to call them. They exist, and they are prevalent. "
  • "If I place ALL of the P3DV5 sliders at minimum, the sim is still OLD. It still has problems with ground textures morphing (try Madeira full default sim with low sliders and see for yourself). It stutters and chugs along.  It is not designed for modern architecture. Sure it might have been switched to DX12, however it is STILL the same old sim engine, that stutters and morphs along. Go check out P3Dv% forum over at LM and see for yourself! It's like putting a new Porsche engine in an old Ford Galaxy."
  • "FPS is not a problem here for me. The problem is stutters over large cities. Only happens over large cities too. (Especially London). Also popping scenery. It’s as if the sim can’t keep up with my system! It’s trying to load things too slowly."
  • "A bit like orbx then. Those sceneries cause stutter too. Regardless of FPS, they just don’t push the scenery through fast enough. Popping and stuttering in dense areas."

You're also determined that X-Plane does not stutter:

  • "XP-11 is a far newer engine, and with Vulkan the smoothness is far superior to P3DV5. Also P3DV5 costs a small fortune to get it looking good. I prefer XP11 for the actual feel of flight, and not having to fight stutters (they simply don't exist) "
  • "One thing xplane has going for it, is zero stuttering, fluid flight."
  • "Yup, one of the reasons XP holds my attention more, stutters like that, that just can’t seem to be rid of, even in P3DV5, where they are greatly reduced, they’re still there."

If your reports of severe stutters to point of having an unusable sim are correct, you are dealing with a highly atypical situation. The issue here is getting the last little bit of smoothness and performance from the sim, which is what HT on/off and affinity masks are trying to do. The differences between these approaches are subtle enough that experienced simmers can still argue about whether they work or not after many years of testing and discussion.

For new users - the problem is that people may think that they need to tweak, add affinity masks, disable CPU features etc to run the sim. Prepar3d has not been designed for this, and to the best of my knowledge disabling HT is not something that LM recommends. You do not need to do it, and if it scares you, then rest assured that this sort of thing is highly optional.

For the tweakers in the room, go crazy. I do run an affinity mask, but I have zero evidence that it helps, so if there is a performance gain it is subtle. On some systems, changes to HT or broader affinity mask changes may help (or hinder) to a greater extent.

If your sim is near-unusable with HT on, that's another issue altogether, and I think all the posts that I've seen stating the problem to this extent have come from you.

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Rob

Sim rig: Intel Core i9 9900K @ 5GHz, Asus ROG Maximus XI Code, MSI 2080 Ti, GSkill DDR4 32 GB, NZXT Kraken. 

Current sims: P3D v5, MSFS, X-plane 11, Aerofly FS2 and DCS. 

 xdQCeNi.jpg   puHyX98.jpg

"There are three simple rules for making a smooth landing. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are."

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52 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Pretty bad advice. I have a 9900KS water cooled at 5GhZ. With HT on I get stutters, long frames, whatever you want to call them. If I add an AM I can eliminate 90% of the stutters. 

I have HT on and AF set but don’t have micro-stutters and only the occasional stutter. What resolution? What frequency is your monitor set to? Is Core 0 maxed out?

I run at 3840*2160@30Hz. Core 0 is nearly always below 100% except at busy airports like EGLL, LFPG etc. I accept that in order to see plenty of Ai.

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Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v4.5, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor.
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13 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

Bad advice? Your opinion is based on your single install, and there was clearly a serious problem with either this or your system (or you are just obsessed with stutters). Some of your selected recent comments on the matter:

  • "Spot on, the problem is the software. The mirage of endless ‘solutions’ in here comical. "
  • "All of this work. Did it ever occur to anyone, maybe, just maybe, the sim itself is just ‘broke’? Don’t have this problem with other sims."
  • "A quick google search will show you a decade worth of posts relating to stutters and hitches and whatever else you want to call them. They exist, and they are prevalent. "
  • "If I place ALL of the P3DV5 sliders at minimum, the sim is still OLD. It still has problems with ground textures morphing (try Madeira full default sim with low sliders and see for yourself). It stutters and chugs along.  It is not designed for modern architecture. Sure it might have been switched to DX12, however it is STILL the same old sim engine, that stutters and morphs along. Go check out P3Dv% forum over at LM and see for yourself! It's like putting a new Porsche engine in an old Ford Galaxy."
  • "FPS is not a problem here for me. The problem is stutters over large cities. Only happens over large cities too. (Especially London). Also popping scenery. It’s as if the sim can’t keep up with my system! It’s trying to load things too slowly."
  • "A bit like orbx then. Those sceneries cause stutter too. Regardless of FPS, they just don’t push the scenery through fast enough. Popping and stuttering in dense areas."

You're also determined that X-Plane does not stutter:

  • "XP-11 is a far newer engine, and with Vulkan the smoothness is far superior to P3DV5. Also P3DV5 costs a small fortune to get it looking good. I prefer XP11 for the actual feel of flight, and not having to fight stutters (they simply don't exist) "
  • "One thing xplane has going for it, is zero stuttering, fluid flight."
  • "Yup, one of the reasons XP holds my attention more, stutters like that, that just can’t seem to be rid of, even in P3DV5, where they are greatly reduced, they’re still there."

If your reports of severe stutters to point of having an unusable sim are correct, you are dealing with a highly atypical situation. The issue here is getting the last little bit of smoothness and performance from the sim, which is what HT on/off and affinity masks are trying to do. The differences between these approaches are subtle enough that experienced simmers can still argue about whether they work or not after many years of testing and discussion.

For new users - the problem is that people may think that they need to tweak, add affinity masks, disable CPU features etc to run the sim. Prepar3d has not been designed for this, and to the best of my knowledge disabling HT is not something that LM recommends. You do not need to do it, and if it scares you, then rest assured that this sort of thing is highly optional.

For the tweakers in the room, go crazy. I do run an affinity mask, but I have zero evidence that it helps, so if there is a performance gain it is subtle. On some systems, changes to HT or broader affinity mask changes may help (or hinder) to a greater extent.

If your sim is near-unusable with HT on, that's another issue altogether, and I think all the posts that I've seen stating the problem to this extent have come from you.

All come from me? Your delusion level runs so high that I won’t even respond to you other than to say, morphing terrain and stutters are PREVALENT in the P3D runs from 1 through 5. Go read the LM forum and you’ll see. Even better, Google it. 
Goodbye.  

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53 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

All come from me? Your delusion level runs so high that I won’t even respond to you other than to say, morphing terrain and stutters are PREVALENT in the P3D runs from 1 through 5. Go read the LM forum and you’ll see. Even better, Google it. 
Goodbye.  


Took your advice and googled it - key word search "stuttering" + "texture morphing"

First hit. from elsewhere on the web:

"Re: Unusual ground texture morphing/rendering
Postby ianrivaldosmith » Wed May 27, 2020 11:10 pm

This is a known issue I believe. I too posted about it a month or so ago, when P3DV5 came out. Apparently there is nothing you can do about it. Various YouTube videos show this too. To really see it happen, try flying around the island of Madeira. That’s when it’s at its worst. The advice I was given? Don’t fly in Madeira.... yup!

Add this to the stuttering game engine and you have =
Immersion killer! For IFR pilots, maybe they turn a blind eye. For VFR, it destroys the sim!"

I was also saddened to get an Axis I diagnosis of "delusional" from you, but then I remembered that you gave all of the guys over at the .org an Axis II diagnosis:

"One doesn’t get much help from the narcissists over there. You have to dig through posts and beg."

I think you're overdoing the amateur psychiatric diagnoses!

See you around.

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Rob

Sim rig: Intel Core i9 9900K @ 5GHz, Asus ROG Maximus XI Code, MSI 2080 Ti, GSkill DDR4 32 GB, NZXT Kraken. 

Current sims: P3D v5, MSFS, X-plane 11, Aerofly FS2 and DCS. 

 xdQCeNi.jpg   puHyX98.jpg

"There are three simple rules for making a smooth landing. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are."

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35 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:


Took your advice and googled it - key word search "stuttering" + "texture morphing"

First hit. from elsewhere on the web:

"Re: Unusual ground texture morphing/rendering
Postby ianrivaldosmith » Wed May 27, 2020 11:10 pm

This is a known issue I believe. I too posted about it a month or so ago, when P3DV5 came out. Apparently there is nothing you can do about it. Various YouTube videos show this too. To really see it happen, try flying around the island of Madeira. That’s when it’s at its worst. The advice I was given? Don’t fly in Madeira.... yup!

Add this to the stuttering game engine and you have =
Immersion killer! For IFR pilots, maybe they turn a blind eye. For VFR, it destroys the sim!"

I was also saddened to get an Axis I diagnosis of "delusional" from you, but then I remembered that you gave all of the guys over at the .org an Axis II diagnosis:

"One doesn’t get much help from the narcissists over there. You have to dig through posts and beg."

I think you're overdoing the amateur psychiatric diagnoses!

See you around.

Ok, I’ll do it for you. Seen as though you can’t run a generic search term. 
 

22_2bc51272-b714-44df-af28-add15cf9878a.
 

22_21d934d5-a479-4173-9c31-6d0394cd8cea.
 

22_7048ccad-e927-4381-9b95-f5ce1fb925c0.

22_7093349b-588a-4714-b268-c6b1698a8522.
 

 

 

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51 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

Took your advice and googled it - key word search "stuttering" + "texture morphing"

"stuttering texture morphing p3d" - 44600 hits
"stuttering texture morphing xplane" - 346000 hits

Don't know if google searches are the killer argument 😁

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System: i9 9900k@4.9 - 32 GB RAM - Aorus 1080ti --- Sim/Addons: P3D v5 with tons of Addons and 3rd Party Airports
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32 minutes ago, simbol said:

This is an issue all current and future flight simulators are suffering from.. the key is who hides this issue best..

S.

Not quite, but hey ho.....

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7 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Not quite, but hey ho.....

Do you understand why this occurs? The world around you cannot be loaded ahead of the entire scene as normal video games do.

So all flight simulators requires the world being rendered as you move along. It doesn't matter where you store such “world", local disk or cloud (streaming) or which format the same problem is present. The world will need to be rendered as you move and the faster you move, more resources are required to render such world.

Local disk has limited resources and streaming as well as it depends on your capacity to stream.

So the problem cannot be solved at this point in time until different technologies are available that allows the rendering to be done more efficiently.

Unity engine V5 looks very promising on this area, but it will take a while for this new technology to be fully operational and implemented by flight simulators.

S.

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For me the texture morphing it is unacceptable, this breaks the immersion in the simulator.

Regards.

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Hey Simbol -- don't forget that a (userIanrivaldosmith) knows more than a developer :) /s

Keep up the good work!

 


Gigabyte Z97X-UD5H-BK, Blk Ed MB; Intel I7-4790K CPU (@4.5 Ghz); Deepcool 240 AIO Cooler; 16 Gb G.Skill RAM (F3-2400); Win10 Pro (P3D V5 HF1); 2 Samsung 1Tb SSDs;Toshiba 3Tb hard drive; Gigabyte Aorus Extreme 1080ti 11Gb VRAM; Toshiba 43" LED TV @ 4k;

 

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, pgde said:

Hey Simbol -- don't forget that a (userIanrivaldosmith) knows more than a developer 🙂/s

Keep up the good work!

 

You shouldn't make assumptions. 

Edited by Ianrivaldosmith

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