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V5 HF2 arriving early next week

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29 minutes ago, simbol said:

Do you understand why this occurs? The world around you cannot be loaded ahead of the entire scene as normal video games do.

So all flight simulators requires the world being rendered as you move along. It doesn't matter where you store such “world", local disk or cloud (streaming) or which format the same problem is present. The world will need to be rendered as you move and the faster you move, more resources are required to render such world.

Local disk has limited resources and streaming as well as it depends on your capacity to stream.

So the problem cannot be solved at this point in time until different technologies are available that allows the rendering to be done more efficiently.

Unity engine V5 looks very promising on this area, but it will take a while for this new technology to be fully operational and implemented by flight simulators.

S.

You I get it, however I am sure they could hide it a bit better in P3DV5, like some other sims do. 

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Just now, Ianrivaldosmith said:

You I get it, however I am sure they could hide it a bit better in P3DV5, like some other sims do. 

You should re-read my comments then.. what I said was that all current and new sims suffer from this and the key point is who can hide it best.. so I don't see the points on your posts to then reach to the same conclusion of what I already said?

S.

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The world is too large for ALL the data to be preloaded, data has to be read in as we fly along.

That data preloading happens in the background task. If the background task overstretches the system, then the foreground task will suffer and we see stutter.

Eliminate an overreaching background task and the foreground task is less affected for less stutters.

Also we must help the system avoid starting processes on the core supporting the foreground task by careful arrangement of Affinity of the simulator and the programs that run alongside it.

The simulator program does not know the required partition, the number of cores to use, without an AM will assign all logical processors. That in itself can burden the system.

The simulator can run the foreground task without care of how long the background task takes to collect data and maintain fps. However we can find that the scenery is not fully loaded when we get there when flying too fast for the background task.

Generally stutter is caused by inappropriately high graphical settings and not enough care with the core affinity setup.

Edited by SteveW
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Steve Waite: Engineer at codelegend.com

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, simbol said:

You should re-read my comments then.. what I said was that all current and new sims suffer from this and the key point is who can hide it best.. so I don't see the points on your posts to then reach to the same conclusion of what I already said?

S.

I have never EVER seen morphing of mountains or terrain anywhere within the vicinity of my aircraft in XP11 or DCS. Ever. In P3Dv% I literally fly over Madeira (as an example) and the terrain is shifting in front of me, to the side of me, below me. Really poor. I am aware it's probably happening in the distance, but you simply don't see it like you do in the P3D system.

Edited by Ianrivaldosmith

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4 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

I have never EVER seen morphing of mountains or terrain anywhere within the vicinity of my aircraft in XP11 or DCS. Ever. In P3Dv% I literally fly over Madeira (as an example) and the terrain is shifting in front of me, to the side of me, below me. Really poor. I am aware it's probably happening in the distance, but you simply don't see it like you do in the P3D system.

Nor have I. But the standard mesh in XP is, well, rather simple. Go for UHD (which is 30m btw, so not really "U"HD), and you face enourmous loading times and a slow XP, even with high end computers. I know that, I have a rocket of a computer and use both P3D and XP. Both have their upsides. Mesh loading isn't one of P3D, mesh detail non of XP11.

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12 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

I have never EVER seen morphing of mountains or terrain anywhere within the vicinity of my aircraft in XP11 or DCS. Ever. In P3Dv% I literally fly over Madeira (as an example) and the terrain is shifting in front of me, to teh side of me, below me. Really poor. 

We are going in circles it seems, just because you haven't experienced in XP it doesn't mean it doesn't occur. Google it and you will find plenty of users experiencing it inside XP and other simulators.. you will even find plenty of videos showing it, it is all about resources and how you configure your simulator. but even simple worlds simulators as "Orbiter 2016" experience these texturing morphing issues.

In any case, if you have the available resources (powerfull GPU and plenty of VRAM) you can minimise these issues with P3D by tweaking the TextureMaxLoad under Prepard3d.cfg inside the [DISPLAY] area, setting this between 9 to 10 instructs P3D to load more objects, textures, etc. into memory ahead of the end user location and current view projection, which in turns reduce the morphing as the terrain will be rendered in memory before you "look". This setting combined with autogen distance can get plenty of "world space" rendered ahead of time and practically remove the morphing entirely.

However you must have a very powerful system and plenty of resources as otherwise you can suffer from stutters or VRAM starvation.

S.

Edited by simbol
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....and we are off topic here......or? 😉

Guys...common...this isn´t leading anywhere. It is like it is.and if someone has a real problem with this behaviour then he/she should post it at LM Site and make his/her point very clear overthere. 

That way we could keep this topic to HF2 release this "week".....

AND: Never forget...it is JUST a hobby for the most of us.

Marcus

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1 hour ago, JoeFackel said:

"stuttering texture morphing p3d" - 44600 hits
"stuttering texture morphing xplane" - 346000 hits

Don't know if google searches are the killer argument 😁

Joe, whilst i was largely joking about the Google thing, the poster in question does post over and over about how Prepar3d is unusable due to terrible stuttering and "texture morphing", and has done so since the first few days after P3D v5 came out. 

I did literally go to Google just for fun and typed in "texture morphing" +"stuttering" - try it.

Hit 1, from poster in question: prepar3d.com

"This is a known issue I believe. I too posted about it a month or so ago, when P3DV5 came out. Apparently there is nothing you can do about it. Various YouTube videos show this too. To really see it happen, try flying around the island of Madeira. That’s when it’s at its worst. The advice I was given? Don’t fly in Madeira.... yup!

"Add this to the stuttering game engine and you have =
Immersion killer! For IFR pilots, maybe they turn a blind eye. For VFR, it destroys the sim!"

Hit 3: x-plane.org, from poster in question.

"I wouldn’t bother. It’s good for airliners, but that is about it. The only thing I really love about V5, is the true sky! 
however, the texture morphing and stuttering and mesh morphing. No thank you!"

Hit 2 is about a "Squashed funky electronic music loop with stuttering female screams over a fat morphing beat at 108 Bpm." - this is probably not from the same guy!

Really, my point is that if you have a problem with your flight sim you should post for trouble-shooting purposes, that's fine. But one needs to be careful not to over-extrapolate and imagine that the problem on a given system applies to all users and the sim as a whole. And also - one or two posts about Prepar3d v5's terrible stuttering would be an elegant sufficiency. Dozens? That gets old, very quickly.

Prepar3d v5, whilst far from perfect, has the best performance - and the least stutters - on my system of any version of LM's sim.

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Rob

Sim rig: Intel Core i9 9900K @ 5GHz, Asus ROG Maximus XI Code, MSI 2080 Ti, GSkill DDR4 32 GB, NZXT Kraken. 

Current sims: P3D v5, MSFS, X-plane 11, Aerofly FS2 and DCS. 

 xdQCeNi.jpg   puHyX98.jpg

"There are three simple rules for making a smooth landing. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are."

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Posted (edited)

Well.....I am quite satisfied with my V5. And that in VR!

Yes of course....here and there a little stutter, sometimes a bigger one....

But hey. A lot of us people doesn´t have a clue HOW MANY processes are running on our maschines wich can influence the SIM / gfx interface. 

And it is most likely that a lot of us doens´t seem to look really deep into it and find the root cause of the issues they are having. We are not talking about "normal" games here. This is Flightsim. It ALWAYS has had some "special" threatment needed. Now in combo with Microsoft....tada...magic

Common......let´s get back to topic.

Question: Good news from LM that the HF2 Hotfix will come out early this week! And I will bet: This Hotfix will solve ALL the problems for ALL of us simmers in one single HF! Or does it not? 😉

Of course it will not! But it will contain a list of fixes and again LM did work for us to solve things! 

Imagine what would have happened if LM did end the P3D development? THAT would have been a issue!

Marcus

 

PS: HF 2 on  Monday, Tuesday or later? Guesses?

Edited by mpo910
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6 minutes ago, mpo910 said:

Well.....I am quite satisfied with my V5. And that in VR!

Yes of course....here and there a little stutter, sometimes a bigger one....

But hey. A lot of us people doesn´t have a clue HOW MANY processes are running on our maschines wich can influence the SIM / gfx interface. 

And it is most likely that a lot of us doens´t seem to look really deep into it and find the root cause of the issues they are having. We are not talking about "normal" games here. This is Flightsim. It ALWAYS has had some "special" threatment needed. Now in combo with Microsoft....tada...magic

Common......let´s get back to topic.

Question: Good news from LM that the HF2 Hotfix will come out early this week! And I will bet: This Hotfix will solve ALL the problems for ALL of us simmers in one single HF! Or does it not? 😉

Of course it will not! But it will contain a list of fixes and again LM did work for us to solve things! 

Imagine what would have happened if LM did end the P3D development? THAT would have been a issue!

Marcus

 

PS: HF 2 on  Monday, Tuesday or later? Guesses?

Well, Monday is over in 49 minutes here, so I say Tuesday. 🙂

High expectations for this hotfix. Don't get your hopes up too much, guys. Slow and steady progress over the next few years is the normal course of events after an initial Prepar3d release.

Stability for most systems is what I am hoping for, even though I've personally got my rig adequately stable right now.  


Rob

Sim rig: Intel Core i9 9900K @ 5GHz, Asus ROG Maximus XI Code, MSI 2080 Ti, GSkill DDR4 32 GB, NZXT Kraken. 

Current sims: P3D v5, MSFS, X-plane 11, Aerofly FS2 and DCS. 

 xdQCeNi.jpg   puHyX98.jpg

"There are three simple rules for making a smooth landing. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are."

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1 hour ago, mpo910 said:

Well.....I am quite satisfied with my V5. And that in VR!

Yes of course....here and there a little stutter, sometimes a bigger one....

But hey. A lot of us people doesn´t have a clue HOW MANY processes are running on our maschines wich can influence the SIM / gfx interface. 

And it is most likely that a lot of us doens´t seem to look really deep into it and find the root cause of the issues they are having. We are not talking about "normal" games here. This is Flightsim. It ALWAYS has had some "special" threatment needed. Now in combo with Microsoft....tada...magic

Common......let´s get back to topic.

Question: Good news from LM that the HF2 Hotfix will come out early this week! And I will bet: This Hotfix will solve ALL the problems for ALL of us simmers in one single HF! Or does it not? 😉

Of course it will not! But it will contain a list of fixes and again LM did work for us to solve things! 

Imagine what would have happened if LM did end the P3D development? THAT would have been a issue!

Marcus

 

PS: HF 2 on  Monday, Tuesday or later? Guesses?

Most of the time it's Tuesday ;-)...


 

André
 

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1 hour ago, simbol said:

We are going in circles it seems, just because you haven't experienced in XP it doesn't mean it doesn't occur. Google it and you will find plenty of users experiencing it inside XP and other simulators.. you will even find plenty of videos showing it, it is all about resources and how you configure your simulator. but even simple worlds simulators as "Orbiter 2016" experience these texturing morphing issues.

In any case, if you have the available resources (powerfull GPU and plenty of VRAM) you can minimise these issues with P3D by tweaking the TextureMaxLoad under Prepard3d.cfg inside the [DISPLAY] area, setting this between 9 to 10 instructs P3D to load more objects, textures, etc. into memory ahead of the end user location and current view projection, which in turns reduce the morphing as the terrain will be rendered in memory before you "look". This setting combined with autogen distance can get plenty of "world space" rendered ahead of time and practically remove the morphing entirely.

However you must have a very powerful system and plenty of resources as otherwise you can suffer from stutters or VRAM starvation.

S.

Texture_Max_Load is in my Graphics area, and I have mine set to 2048.  There is no TextureMaxLoad under my Display area.

Stan

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, spilok said:

Texture_Max_Load is in my Graphics area, and I have mine set to 2048.  There is no TextureMaxLoad under my Display area.

Stan

There are 2 different settings: https://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=131695

Quote
[Display]
TextureMaxLoad=6
This is the max number of textures to load onto the GPU per frame. Increasing will help textures make it onto the GPU faster, but increasing this too much could introduce stutters.

The is another entry in the [Graphics] section called "TEXTURE_MAX_LOAD" which is the max texture resolution we load (512, 1024, 2048, 4096). This one is controlled via a UI slider and thus is not mentioned in the advanced configuration article.

Hope that clears it up.

Thanks,
Beau Hollis

S.

Edited by simbol

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18 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:
18 hours ago, simbol said:

 

I have never EVER seen morphing of mountains or terrain anywhere within the vicinity of my aircraft in XP11 or DCS.

The bad mesh resolution in XP11 is one of the reasons I stopped using XP11. You need hundreds of GB of mesh data.  

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