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Andreas Stangenes

How does FS handle airports that are under maintenance?

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Posted (edited)

These days I have way too much time to go around and think about MSFS and all the things that are implied with the new tech. Ie, they use satelite imagery to generate all the airports in the world together with use of AI and algorithms to make good representations of those airports in the sim. So the imagery are pictures, basically, and they are snapshots in time of that area. So what happens if an airport is undergoing heavy maintenance? like having a runway shut down and full of construction vehicles and things? Or maybe a new runway is being constructed and later opened for service. How often, if ever, will MS update their resources to stay somewhat up to date with what is happening in the real world?

This isnt only relevant to airports, of course, since changes happen all over the world on a daily basis. How is this change handled is what I'm basically asking. 

Edited by Andreas Stangenes

Andreas Stangenes

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Just now, MaVe64 said:

From whom are you expecting a reply? These are just useless questions..

I'm sorry I dont fulfill your critera for usefullness, but I don't have anything better to do than to ponder and speculate (which I clearly stated btw) 😉 

I would think that old time simmers are probably wondering this too since previous iterations of MSFS (fsx, fs9 etc) have had their worlds made and then not really updated ever since. For a sim that states that it will be fully VFR capable, and I guess they also intend for it to be used as a trainer, then how can they back that claim up without also updating the sim world to reflect the changes in the real world? 

How often are the bing satelite maps updated btw? 


Andreas Stangenes

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43 minutes ago, Andreas Stangenes said:

How is this change handled is what I'm basically asking. 

How would you expect it to be handled given limited resources?

Hook


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The airports are all going to be hand modeled as they discussed in the “airports” video. 
 

However, it’s a big world. It will look like bing maps with some clean up and autogen on top or photogrammetry where it’s available. You can make that look really good, but it’s certainly not accurate to the point where if I burned my house down last week you’ll see smoldering rubble in the sim today. It’ll be a snapshot in time. When Bing gets updated the scenery gets updated. No one knows that schedule but the developer road map does say they’ll discuss that. 
 

Highly recommend watching the discovery series’ they put out. 

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As you mentioned, such changes are almost a daily occurrence. So how reasonable is it to expect such to be replicated in the sim within a few days, months, or even years?

NOT. VERY. REASONABLE.

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Fr. Bill    

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Interests: Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling for Milviz

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3 minutes ago, LHookins said:

How would you expect it to be handled given limited resources?

Hook

Hmm, good question 🙂 Well, I guess I expect them to have thought of this when choosing their methods. I know they have put AI to good use, and only a handfull of the 37.000 airports in the sim are handcrafted. If the airports are imported from bing maps through algorithms then I hope its a matter of taking new imagery and subject it to the AI for implmentation. If it is very demanding in regards to human resources I hope it is one of the things they will have to update every so often, but my money is on that they put the AI to good use and can reduce the human resource factor by a lot. 


Andreas Stangenes

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1 minute ago, n4gix said:

As you mentioned, such changes are almost a daily occurrence. So how reasonable is it to expect such to be replicated in the sim within a few days, months, or even years?

NOT. VERY. REASONABLE.

I'm not so sure. What do we know about how resource intensive it was to produce the iteration of the world that is in-sim now? They have taken imagery from satelites that take pictures all the time. So there is an updated database of imagery of the earth that must be constantly changing and updated.  We know they have used AI and algorithms to import a lot of things into the sim world (ie. airports). If the new tech they are using is also coded for the future (i mean, you cant talk about modern issues today without talking about changes and how to handle them), then maybe it wont be so resource intensive to keep the sim world updated? 


Andreas Stangenes

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1 minute ago, Andreas Stangenes said:

They can't answer their future plans for handling the world changing and the gap between the real world and the sim ever increasing? I doubt they haven't thought about it. I even hope they planned for it. 

Asobo have nothing to do with Bing Maps. They don't have plans about this. How often do you think the whole world will be updated in Bing? Every month?


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3 minutes ago, Andreas Stangenes said:

They have taken imagery from satelites that take pictures all the time. So there is an updated database of imagery of the earth that must be constantly changing and updated.  

I don't think you know how this works. A lot of the data is 10 years old. You can't update the earth all the time. At least not yet, it's too much work.


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4 minutes ago, MaVe64 said:

Asobo have nothing to do with Bing Maps. They don't have plans about this. How often do you think the whole world will be updated in Bing? Every month?

I dont know how often bing maps are updated, that is part of what I'm asking. I know they must be updated somewhat regularly, and that brings me to the question of how often these changes in bing maps will be implemented in the sim world. 


Andreas Stangenes

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MS periodically buys new satellite images from the vendor. It isn't inexpensive so doesn't happen that often.

https://support.narrpr.com/hc/en-us/articles/204963470-How-often-are-the-map-images-updated-#:~:text=Bing releases updated imagery on roughly a monthly,while others may take more time to refresh.

Quote

How often are the map images updated?

The birds-eye-view images in RPR are updated periodically by Microsoft’s Bing maps. Bing releases updated imagery on roughly a monthly basis. Because aerial photography is conducted by third-party providers, and updates are based on their flyover schedules, some regions may be refreshed on an annual basis, while others may take more time to refresh. In general, urban areas are updated more frequently, and rural areas do not change as frequently. This means that images for some locations can be several years old.

Also note that birds-eye images are taken at a 45-degree angle, from low-flying aircraft, while the aerial images are taken from directly above, captured by satellite.

 

  • Upvote 1

Fr. Bill    

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Posted (edited)

Although you're being Primi hastati there at going in to the OP's defence (no-one else has so well done for going in there first) - and good for you for doing so;

I don't see the OP's question as having any relevance as it's conjecture about an unkown platform, is based on assumption, derived from presumption and mostly based on imagination.

Let's wait and get the gen when the darn thing is released and we have it on our PC's.

So actually we're talking about nothing here...

I think. Therefore, I am, not...am...whatever...

109 Sqn guy, come here; http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/forum.php

 

 

Edited by Will Fly For Cheese

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Andreas Stangenes said:

I guess they also intend for it to be used as a trainer,

What kind of "trainer"?? Do you know what kind of trainers real pilots use? They certainly do not rely on updated satellite imagery, in fact the scenery (if any) they offer is not even close to what this MSFS offers. There is no such thing as "fully VFR capable" trainer regardless what kind of pilot you are. Please learn about real life pilot's training, make a trip to your local GA airport. My FBO has a couple expensive flight trainers but I am afraid you would be very disappointed...

Edited by michal

Michael J.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Will Fly For Cheese said:

Although you're being Primi hastati there at going in to the OP's defence (no-one else has so well done for going in there first) - and good for you for doing so;

I don't see the OP's question as having any relevance as it's conjecture about an unkown platform, is based on assumption, derived from presumption and mostly based on imagination.

Let's wait and get the gen when the darn thing is released and we have it on our PC's.

So actually we're talking about nothing here...

I think. Therefore, I am, not...am...whatever...

109 Sqn guy, come here; http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/forum.php

 

 

Well, You are correct it is speculation on my part. You can contribute with your brain power or not. Its not up to you to decide what qualifies as an interesting discussion, though. I havent posted anything on these forums for a very long time, and the various aspects of this new sim has rekindled my interest in sims and this forum. Its probably true for many more. You guys should be glad and stop silencing people who approach this differently than you. You just make the impression that this forum is reserved for grumpy old men, or just men with a certain way of thinking. 
 

we dont have all the facts yet. Should we just be silent untill we do? Then whats the point of this community again?

Edited by Andreas Stangenes
  • Upvote 2

Andreas Stangenes

http://www.youtube.com/user/krsans78
Add me on gamertag: Bullhorns78

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2 hours ago, MaVe64 said:

Asobo have nothing to do with Bing Maps. They don't have plans about this. How often do you think the whole world will be updated in Bing? Every month?

Bing, like Google and Apple Maps tends to be updated piecemeal as new data becomes available in a given area. The maps at low zoom levels tend to show satellite photos. Those can be updated rather quickly. At higher zoom levels, the imagery tends to come from aerial photo surveys. Those get updated less often. Aerial photos require aircraft to fly grid patterns over various areas, and it can take several days just to do a small segment of a state. They are typically done only in spring or summer, and weather and other factors play a roll in what gets done, where and when.

The local high-zoom imagery in my local area in upstate NY is from 2018 in Apple Maps, 2015 in Google Maps, and 2014 in Bing. I’ve seen other parts of the US where the Bing imagery is the newest. It’s hard to predict when a given area will get new data in any of the various mapping services.

  • Upvote 2

Jim Barrett

Licensed Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic, Avionics, Electrical & Air Data Systems Specialist. Qualified on: Falcon 900, CRJ-200, Dornier 328-100, Hawker 850XP and 1000, Lear 35, 45, 55 and 60, Gulfstream IV and 550, Embraer 135, Beech Premiere and 400A, MD-80.

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