Still worried about the flight model ... how planes move

[Murmur 3,978]

7 hours ago, tweekz said:

What does not work is the IAS getting unreliable, but this doesn't work in any sim (unfortunately).

Don't know about FSX, but FlightGear (I think) and XP model a reduction in IAS during a sideslip, taking into account the fact that the pitot tube is not parallel to airflow.

But I presume you're talking about something more, like a significant drop or fluctuations of IAS? Maybe a bit related to this, but I think none of the major general purpose sims models IAS errors/corrections vs airspeed.

[bean_sprout 1,201]

Does anyone think that after over 10 years of work, that the new flight model will be inferior to what is already available?

The discussion of rewriting the FS engine have been going on for years well now we have one - so what can WE complain about now?

Regards

bs

Edited August 3, 2020 by bean_sprout

[hangar 661]

4 minutes ago, bean_sprout said:

Does anyone think that after over 10 years of work, that the new flight model will be inferior to what is already available?

They haven't actually been working on the new physics for 10 years. But yea, there's no doubt in my mind that it will go through a long period of growing pains...perhaps even a  couple more years before they get it as good as they can for "out of the box" physics. I think by that time enough time will have passed for both MS and also 3rd parties to release aircraft for this new sim and have the physics as good as it will allow. but at release, I'm expecting lots of issues/imperfections.

Again, the most important question for me personally is... will the sim at release be at least good enough to keep me in the game...or will I end up putting it aside and waiting a year, or more? Who knows...I'm always hopeful and willing to try with an open mind though. So here's hoping!

[JRBarrett 3,209]

27 minutes ago, Murmur said:

Don't know about FSX, but FlightGear (I think) and XP model a reduction in IAS during a sideslip, taking into account the fact that the pitot tube is not parallel to airflow.

But I presume you're talking about something more, like a significant drop or fluctuations of IAS? Maybe a bit related to this, but I think none of the major general purpose sims models IAS errors/corrections vs airspeed.

In a real airplane, IAS can indeed be lower than actual IAS in a side slip because the pitot tube is not aligned with the relative wind. The effect isn’t as likely in a side slip used for crosswind correction. In that case, just enough opposite rudder is being used to counteract the tendency to turn toward the lowered wing, but the nose is still pointing in the same direction the plane is flying. 

IAS loss is more likely in a “strong” slipping manuever being performed to increase rate of descent without increasing airspeed. In that case, more opposite rudder is used, and the nose (and pitot tube) will be offset from the aircraft’s flight path. This can also lead to noticeable up/down fluctuations in IAS, particularly if the aircraft has only one static port, which was quite common in older Cessnas. In this case, if the relative wind hits the static port sideways, it will raise the static pressure which will cause the indicated airspeed to drop.

Later model Cessnas and most Pipers have dual cross-connected static ports located on opposite sides of the fuselage, which tend to diminish static pressure fluctuations caused by slipping maneuvers.

Edited August 3, 2020 by JRBarrett

[hangar 661]

3 minutes ago, JRBarrett said:

Later model Cessnas and most Pipers have dual cross-connected static ports

Ha, didn't know that!

I haven't seen it yet in any of my sim planes thus far....have you noticed yet if it's modeled in any of the planes in the new sim?

[RudyB24 296]

Here's another example of what I meant in my original post. If this behavior is based on 1000 surface airflow calculations then I say throw 980 away to create processor headroom to take some of the burden of our smoking graphics cards. 🙂

I trust Asobo will tune this. In the mean time we can tune rudder and elevator sensitivity to the minimum, although that probably won't change the fundamental plane behavior, just makes it less sensitive and hence less noticeable.

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by RudyB24

[JRBarrett 3,209]

39 minutes ago, hangar said:

Ha, didn't know that!

I haven't seen it yet in any of my sim planes thus far....have you noticed yet if it's modeled in any of the planes in the new sim?

I don’t think any current flight simulator models airspeed fluctuations or loss caused by slipping maneuvers. Developers would probably have to write special code to emulate the effect.

[hangar 661]

Jim - I knew about the airspeed dropping but I was asking about the modeling of the 2nd pitot tube...I've never seen it modeled (visually speaking), or perhaps I just never noticed.

Edited August 3, 2020 by hangar

[tgsweat 146]

28 minutes ago, RudyB24 said:

Here's another example of what I meant in my original post. If this behavior is based on 1000 surface airflow calculations then I say throw 980 away to create processor headroom to take some of the burden of our smoking graphics cards. 🙂

I trust Asobo will tune this. In the mean time we can tune rudder and elevator sensitivity to the minimum, although that probably won't change the fundamental plane behavior, just makes it less sensitive and hence less noticeable.

 

I agree with you and I noticed the same.  But i did notice in all of this guys videos, he's very jerky with control movements. So it may be a combination of user, sensitivity settings, and what controller he is using.  Could be uses an xbox controller or something.  

[RudyB24 296]

22 minutes ago, JRBarrett said:

I don’t think any current flight simulator models airspeed fluctuations or loss caused by slipping maneuvers. Developers would probably have to write special code to emulate the effect.

I was curious so today I tried a slip in a Cessna 172 in good old FSX ... airspeed went down from 100 to 80.

Edit: lol, I just realised I forgot to check if that maybe was because I accidentally started to climb ... I'll do it again tomorrow. 🙂

Edited August 3, 2020 by RudyB24

[tweekz 2,165]

2 hours ago, hangar said:

I haven't seen it yet in any of my sim planes thus far....have you noticed yet if it's modeled in any of the planes in the new sim?

@Murmur said it's modeled in XP. I didn't notice though.

Edited August 3, 2020 by tweekz

[hangar 661]

2 minutes ago, tweekz said:

@Murmur said it's modeled in XP. I didn't notice though.

hmf!, me either. Guess I missed it.

[snglecoil 1,829]

1 hour ago, hangar said:

2nd pitot tube

I believe that was dual static ports rather than dual pitot tubes.

[Murmur 3,978]

2 hours ago, tweekz said:

@Murmur said it's modeled in XP. I didn't notice though.

As far as I know, what's modeled is the decrease in IAS due to misalignment of the pitot. But that would theoretically give only a 13% IAS decrease for a strong slip with a 30 deg yaw angle, and would be barely noticeable for mild slips.

So maybe in the real aircraft there are other effects (turbulence, fluctuations, etc.) not modeled in sims.

[ahsmatt7 1,213]

4 hours ago, RudyB24 said:

Here's another example of what I meant in my original post. If this behavior is based on 1000 surface airflow calculations then I say throw 980 away to create processor headroom to take some of the burden of our smoking graphics cards. 🙂

I trust Asobo will tune this. In the mean time we can tune rudder and elevator sensitivity to the minimum, although that probably won't change the fundamental plane behavior, just makes it less sensitive and hence less noticeable.

 

We have all wanted a sim to where a lot of the work is offloaded to the GPU like most current AAA titles. We have that now and like clock work, we have people saying that we should put things back onto the cpu. Good grief.