Still worried about the flight model ... how planes move

[tweekz 2,165]

1 hour ago, Janov said:

increasing drag due to the increased forward area of the fuselage (plus probably a worse Cd) and some loss of lift due to airflow shadowing on the leeward side.

And the effectiveness of the wing (additionally to shadowing) due to the diagonal setup relative to the flight path.

  

1 hour ago, Janov said:

If the flightmodel is as good as they say - this should be modeled.

They did not explain in detail how those surfaces are calculated, so we can't tell. But I sure hope it is capable of. At least that the flight model has the potential to model it (if the default aircraft can't do it).

Edited August 3, 2020 by tweekz

[dilore 126]

1 minute ago, tweekz said:

It's quite common in GA with small aircraft.

This sideslip crosswind technique is to maintain the aircraft's heading aligned with the runway centerline. The initial phase of the approach is flown using the Crab technique to correct for drift. The aircraft heading is adjusted using opposite rudder and ailerons into the wind to align with the runway. This places the aircraft at a constant sideslip angle, which its natural stability will tend to correct.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crosswind_landing

You will need to crab nevertheless.

[hangar 655]

9 minutes ago, dilore said:

You will need to crab nevertheless.

actually no, you don't need to crab early on if you dont want...although it is safer to do so and most pilots do, further out from touchdown.

But, when it comes time to touch down you NEVER want to be in a crab. Your wheels must always be pointing straight down runway when you touch in a plane that doesn't have a swinging undercarriage (or similar technology to allow crazy gforces  on the gear). The idea here is that if your nose is pointing straight down runway then so is your gear.

Unfortunately, most YT'ers land crabbed (if its windy) and that is just wrong and would never be attempted IRL for obvious safety reasons. Even though flying at low speed and alt in a crossed control condition is never really a "safe" thing to do, it is still safer than landing with your wheel pointed at an angle.

Edited August 3, 2020 by hangar

[tweekz 2,165]

Just now, dilore said:

You will need to crab nevertheless.

No. Crabbing is if you have an angle between the aircraft axis and the runway axis. A sideslips purpose is to nullify that angle to make alignment easier.

[dilore 126]

Well, I am talking about the approach, not the touchdown. 
I cannot see how you can have your centerline aligned with the runway during a crosswind approach. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by dilore

[tweekz 2,165]

1 minute ago, dilore said:

Well, I am talking about the approach, not the touchdown. 
I cannot see how you can have your centerline aligned with the runway during a crosswind approach. 

 

[hangar 655]

3 minutes ago, dilore said:

I cannot see how you can have your centerline aligned with the runway during a crosswind approach

your rudder will keep you aligned, and your windward wing down will keep you from drifting to the side.

[dilore 126]

9 minutes ago, hangar said:

your rudder will keep you aligned, and your windward wing down will keep you from drifting to the side.

+ some crabbing 🙂

Well, I guess it depends on what kind of aircraft we are flying and the strength of the crosswind.

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by dilore

[hangar 655]

3 minutes ago, dilore said:

+ some crabbing 🙂

hehe, no! heh...technically speaking if its done correctly your wing down can be considered crabbed into the wind (this is why you end up touching down on 1 wheel, not 2)....but your nose can never be crabbed on touchdown. I' won't pretend that when you are new at practicing this, it feels quite uncomfortable and takes quite a bit of practice before it feels like second nature. But after a while it does. When you try this for awhile in plane/sim that is designed to perform it well you'll understand it alot better and why it just works 🙂

Edited August 3, 2020 by hangar

[WestAir 2,434]

5 minutes ago, dilore said:

+ some crabbing 🙂

If your nose is not pointed down the centerline, then you are performing a crab, and not a side-slip.

While it is easier to crab, you have to align the nose with the runway centerline prior to touchdown with a side-slip anyway, and so a lot of pilots prefer to just do the side-slip from the start; That said, most transport category ops will crab then side-slip during flare.

[bonchie 2,305]

46 minutes ago, dilore said:

+ some crabbing 🙂

Well, I guess it depends on what kind of aircraft we are flying and the strength of the crosswind.

 

Only ops that typically crab to the runway and kick it out at the last second are larger jets. Usual procedure is to dip the wing into the wind and apply opposite rudder to align with the runway at some point on final. I personally like to wait a bit on final before doing it because the risks are high if you stall in a cross controlled situation.

Edited August 3, 2020 by bonchie

[2reds2whites 808]

12 minutes ago, bonchie said:

Only ops that typically crab to the runway and kick it out at the last second are larger jets. Usual procedure is to dip the wing into the wind and apply opposite rudder to align with the runway at some point on final. I personally like to wait a bit on final before doing it because the risks are high if you stall in a cross controlled situation.

And the reason the big jets mostly fly a crabbed approach and de-crabbed flare is that they don’t have a lot of clearance on the engine pods, so would risk a pod scrape if they fly wing down. Some jets let you fly wing down at landing, some forbid it. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by 2reds2whites

[dilore 126]

26 minutes ago, bonchie said:

Only ops that typically crab to the runway and kick it out at the last second are larger jets. Usual procedure is to dip the wing into the wind and apply opposite rudder to align with the runway at some point on final. I personally like to wait a bit on final before doing it because the risks are high if you stall in a cross controlled situation.

I've flown sailplanes and trikes (no rudder), we only used crabbing too. At least then, was quite a while ago.

Edited August 3, 2020 by dilore

[bonchie 2,305]

20 minutes ago, dilore said:

I've flown sailplanes and trikes (no rudder), we only used crabbing too. At least then, was quite a while ago.

Well, if you have no rudder, your only choice is to crab and land with a side load. I guess those planes are designed to handle it.

Or better yet, they are designed for you to just always point it into the wind since you don't need a runway for either of them.

Edited August 3, 2020 by bonchie

[dilore 126]

21 minutes ago, bonchie said:

Well, if you have no rudder, your only choice is to crab and land with a side load. 

Or better yet, they are designed for you to just always point it into the wind since you don't need a runway for either of them.

Yes, without rudder a side slip is not doable.

With both a trike and sailplane you can instead land directly into the wind if the airfield layout permits it.