OK, I just repeated that slip in FSX in a Cessna, taking care altitude was controlled by autopilot.

IAS went down from 100 to 80, so the drag and speed reduction from flying on an angle is modeled.

If the pitot not being accurate at an angle is modeled I don't know, I have no idea how to distinguish that.

 

Edited August 4, 20205 yr by RudyB24

5 hours ago, Dominique_K said:

Why Randazzo, Gentile and others high level dev say that the new sim opens new horizons to their company. Think a little about it. 

I thought about it and i know their excitement: a whole heap of new addon customers.

💶 KA-CHING!

Good for them.

 

11 hours ago, 737Pilot702 said:

I’m extremely worried about MS2020 in its current iteration.

It looks like it’s missing the following:

 

No Turbulence

Icing does not affect aircraft

Landings seem rigid and non realistic

No Landing gear compression or smoke

No crash physics

None of the default aircraft are even remotely close to study level and the closest on the horizon isn’t set to be released until next year.

How could any flight sim enthusiast hardcore or not even consider using this product seriously?

This is a bizarre take, to me at least.

Firstly, icing absolutely does affect the aircraft in MSFS. There are a couple videos out there flying into IMC icing conditions. You can see lift reductions and increased drag. And, there is plenty of turbulence, if the weather is such.

Landing gear compression, smoke, or crash physics seems pretty squarely in the realm of "nice to have". An actual pilot doesn't fly alongside their plane in a 3rd person view.

On 7/30/2020 at 7:17 PM, fogboundturtle said:

default aircraft. repeat after me. default aircraft.

 

The DEFAULT flight model that  the sim ships with is capable of calculating from 1000 different points on the aircraft. The developer will not be "turning off" or "not bothering to utilise" this revolutionary capability for its default aircraft. 

On 7/30/2020 at 10:05 PM, MikeT707 said:

On a hopeful point, I am sure each aircraft has some sort of a flight model config file where a user could make flight model adjustments in case an aircraft might be too twitchy or feel like it does not have sufficient mass. 

 

Better than that. There is an aircraft editor. If the flight dynamics aren't to your liking, you can tweak them. Not seen it yet, not sure how capable it is, but it's confirmed to be included. 

good to hear, then i suspect there will be  a lively trademarket of  configs hehe.

I've been following this thread and late in the day I'll make some observations about the control/inertia issues I see in every single youtube video shown so far. Hardly anyone is inputting more than a tiny movement with their joysticks to get a very large reaction, and this goes for small prop singles up to the airliners. I've yet to see any take offs or landings where stick input is more than tiny. This suggests that the link between controllers and the core flight model are extremely sensitive. I do hope the developers will provide plenty of user adjustment.

In FSX and P3d the sensitivity sliders in the control menu do not actually adjust control input to actual movement. As you move the slider to the right, FSX and P3d just slow down the response time. Strictly speaking this is not really a sensitivity control. It just slows your input so that a sudden yank on the stick is damped. 

The only other way for a user to control this sensitivity is to open the aircraft cfg file and either increase the aircraft's inertia or increase the pitch, roll and yaw stability, but that is rather a coarse way to do things.

As far as I remember, every iteration of every sim published for a decade and a half starts with way too sensitive pitch control. I recall working with the house aerodynamics guy when Terminal Reality asked me to redesign/tweek the default flight models for Fly2. There was a constant battle of wills, with the aero chap insisting that his equations were mathematically correct, but I argued that whatever the maths were, I could SEE with my own eyes that all the aircraft were way too twitchy. Eventually we reached a compromise and eliminated the far too twitchy pitch control.

I think there are two separate subjects where the 2020 sim is concerned. One is the core flight modelling and the other is weather effects. A GA aircraft at slow approach speed should have increasingly floppy controls, especially in roll but also in pitch. I do not see this happening in the new sim. Forget for the moment the turbulence effects which are separate. In still air even the tiniest aircraft does not buck and weave or display any instability. It should fly as smoothly as a B787.

The weather effects also seem way too twitchy. Some of the smaller aircraft in weather related videos are yawing so fast that they seem to have the inertia of a radio controlled aeroplane. There is a tendency among developers to introduce a feature and exaggerate just it so you know they achieved it. This is bad policy but it seems to be a habit. "Look at the weather effects! We've really gone to town on this" - seems to be a common position.

None of this is particularly worrying PROVIDED the developers offer user control over the excess default reactions. I was pretty skeptical about the announced multiple lift points in the PR blurb for this sim. You could have a thousand lift points but if you adjust them badly you might as well go back to a couple of them and be done with it. One reason some devs apply too much sensitivity could be to stave off accusations from some that this or that sim "flies on rails". Actually I would rather fly a little on rails than try to control something that has ludicrously over-sensitive reactions. Whatever the differing views, it is not realistic to be able to control any aircraft at slow speed with barely a millimetre of stick movement. Even the Extra 300 (which I've flown) needs quite a lot of stick input at lowish speeds despite having massive control surfaces.

 

Edited August 5, 20205 yr by robert young
typo

58 minutes ago, robert young said:

I've been following this thread and late in the day I'll make some observations [...]

If only I could give more than just one like to this post...

 

Edited August 5, 20205 yr by F737NG

23 hours ago, martin-w said:

 

The DEFAULT flight model that  the sim ships with is capable of calculating from 1000 different points on the aircraft. The developer will not be "turning off" or "not bothering to utilise" this revolutionary capability for its default aircraft. 

Do you think it's as easy as turning something on and off? Do you think you can just throw an airfoil into XP11's blade element theory and get an accurate, working plane for that matter?

That's not how any of this works. It takes lots and lots of adjusting variables and tweaking to get a flight model correct. Even if the base flight model is designed well, it's still a matter of how much time and energy you are willing to invest to get something that's close to real life coming out the other end.

Edited August 5, 20205 yr by bonchie

8 hours ago, robert young said:

I've been following this thread and late in the day I'll make some observations about the control/inertia issues I see in every single youtube video shown so far.

So what you're saying is that even though there may be 1000 points for aerodynamic interaction, they might be tuned poorly.....because you know...default airplanes. 

Or that this over sensitivity is something that's been an issue with airplanes in the previous Sims.

Or that at the end of the day, it may not be the actual sim, but the developer themselves who are responsible for how an airplane flies in the sim.

You made some good points and a good write up. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume there you have extensive time in the alpha/beta? 

Either way, these are 40 default airplanes which were made within the last 4 years. That means that each airplane had on average a little over a month of time devoted to each one. Is it too much to say that that probably isn't enough time to get eveey airplane fine tuned like we are used to with 3rd party add ons?

Is it too much to expect default airplanes to be some payware quality right out of the box?

Seeing how some videos showcase some interesting aerodynamic characteristics, this sim is better than what a lot of people have.

Secondly, I remember when I first flew xplane 11. I used the 737 and I remember how that thing was bobbing and weaving when I through some wind and turbulence to it. Even in the cockpit it looked the same way as msfs looks. The twitchiness of the controls were the same. It's actually the reason I never have fussed with xplane. Having extensive experience with GA and transport airplanes, it felt way too fake.

My point is that each sim has it's flaws. However, this sim has as much as the community wanted outside the box and we are acting like entitled kids. 

I'm going to give this thing the benefit of the doubt until I actually fly an airplane on my PC come August 18th. If you haven't flown it either, I suggest you do the same. 

Edited August 5, 20205 yr by n4gix
QUIT QUOTING THE WHOLE DARN TEXT WHEN REPLYING!!!

3 minutes ago, ahsmatt7 said:

However, this sim has as much as the community wanted outside the box and we are acting like entitled kids.

This community? 😏

Surely not...........

 

I thought let's make a little video that shows what I meant in post one.

Oh ... and I tried a slip too.

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 20205 yr by RudyB24

On 8/4/2020 at 4:12 AM, 737Pilot702 said:

How could any flight sim enthusiast hardcore or not even consider using this product seriously?

Ask him. He claims the aerodynamics feel very realistic. But he's just a 737 captain who works together tightly with Zibo on their XP mod - so he must be biased!

 

46 minutes ago, ahsmatt7 said:

 

You made some good points and a good write up. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume there you have extensive time in the alpha/beta? E

Two little things.

You, of course, know that you are responding to what the FS and P3D community at large considers as the top flight modeler of the last 20 years who gave us jewels like the Legacy  or the two Duke etc. Just sayin’. I do not mean that what Rob says is the Gospel and what he says cannot be discussed but he might know what he is talking about. Who knows ?

Another thing, speaking of this community as entitled kids (I understand that your « we » is rhetorical) is sure to bring you friends, you always do friends when you call people around you names.

Edited August 5, 20205 yr by Dominique_K

For those who like the "flying on rails" feel, there is an option in the new sim to use the legacy flight model.