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RudyB24

Still worried about the flight model ... how planes move

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On 8/1/2020 at 2:13 AM, hangar said:

So, can anyone say if "slips" work correctly yet (as far as using them on windy approaches/landings)? I know in FSX they never did...but in XP11 there are planes that slip really well.

You mean side slips (crabbing).

Forward slips are used to increase descent.

I personally would like to hear about the latter.

...and adverse yaw, ground loops with tail draggers, backwash, P-factor, gyroscopic precession and torque, btw.

 

 

Edited by dilore
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In a lot of the videos the aircraft seem to be very "twitchy", lacking inertia, maybe the default controller sensitivities are way too high IDK.

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Matthew S

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55 minutes ago, dilore said:

You mean side slips (crabbing).

Forward slips are used to increase descent.

I personally would like to hear about the latter.

You can use slips to keep the plane axis aligned with the runway. Crabbing is pointing the nose into the wind.

I saw a video where it seemed to work, but it was too short and hectic to tell for certain. What does not work is the IAS getting unreliable, but this doesn't work in any sim (unfortunately).

 

31 minutes ago, MatthewS said:

In a lot of the videos the aircraft seem to be very "twitchy", lacking inertia, maybe the default controller sensitivities are way too high IDK.

Two beta users have confirmed that it actually is very sensitive with zero neutral tolerance. But you can adjust that.

In a video from Squirrel he mentioned that flying the Robin comes closest to the feeling of flying a real plane he ever had in a sim.

So even if we consider individual experience, I think we do not have to panic.

Edited by tweekz
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Happy with MSFS 🙂
home simming evolved

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49 minutes ago, tweekz said:

In a video from Squirrel he mentioned that flying the Robin comes closest to the feeling of flying a real plane he ever had in a sim.

Yes, his night VFR video is excellent.

 


Matthew S

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55 minutes ago, tweekz said:

You can use slips to keep the plane axis aligned with the runway. Crabbing is pointing the nose into the wind.

I have a hard time to see how this could work in a crosswind situation.

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Crosswind_landing

 


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On 8/1/2020 at 1:13 AM, hangar said:

So, can anyone say if "slips" work correctly yet (as far as using them on windy approaches/landings)? I know in FSX they never did...

Actually the A2A Commanche 250 does a pretty good slip in FSX and P3D.

What I hope they have got in the new sim is in addition to being able to perform a slip if this is the case, it actually sounding like one too. In my experience with slipping, the wind noise really rises up a lot and if you're got a DV panel on the canopy side which is forward in the slip, it gets really loud.

Edited by Chock

Alan Bradbury

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1 hour ago, dilore said:

You mean side slips (crabbing).

Forward slips are used to increase descent.

Not trying to sound rude (and even expose any eventual knowledge gap I have)

But arent sideslip and forward slip pretty much the same thing? (that is at least what I have been taught, and that is from a CFI who has flown everything from the pistons to DC3 to A321NEO)

I mean throw out the wind from the equation, both actions would accomplish the same thing - No?  I get that you would use forward and Side slips for different reasons, but you are both cross controlled and dirty.

 

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Yeah, they're pretty much the same thing, it's semantics and what you are using them for where the confusion slips in.

Edited by Chock

Alan Bradbury

Check out my youtube flight sim videos: Here

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13 minutes ago, SAS443 said:

But arent sideslip and forward slip pretty much the same thing? (that is at least what I have been taught, and that is from a CFI who has flown everything from the pistons to DC3 to A321NEO)

Yes, if you throw out wind, heading and ground track out of the equation, they are the same.

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Slip_(aerodynamics)#/Forward-slip


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14 minutes ago, dilore said:

ground track

Should be the same for both?


EASA PPL SEPL ( NQ , EFIS, Variable Pitch, SLPC, Retractable undercarriage)
B23 / PA32R / PA28 / DA40 / C172S 

MSFS | X-Plane 12 |

 

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11 minutes ago, SAS443 said:

Should be the same for both?

With the same wind direction.

And if you lower the same wing in both kind of slips. In a forward slip, and a headwind, it doesn't matter which wing you take down. In a side slip and a crosswind you need to lower the wing into the wind. 

Edited by dilore

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The reason why I am more interested in the forward slip is because I want to know if it results in an increased descent rate. There is no other critera for a forward slip.

The main criteria of a working side slip is if crosswind correction works. In other words, if MS/Asobo or testers say sideslips work in MSFS then they could mean only that, and not the increased descent rate which IRL occurs in a side slip too.

 



 

 

Edited by dilore

 P3D45, 8700K, RTX3080Ti, 32 GB, HDD 3 + 6 TB, SSD 0.5 TB Warthog HOTAS, Honeycomb Bravo, MFG pedals, Reverb G2

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The increased rate of descent in a slip (both forward and side, they are aerodynamically absolutely identical, the only difference is the intent of usage, like loosing excessive energy vs compensating a crosswind) is due to the airflow coming at an oblique angle - increasing drag due to the increased forward area of the fuselage (plus probably a worse Cd) and some loss of lift due to airflow shadowing on the leeward side.

If the flightmodel is as good as they say - this should be modeled.

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In a forward (to lose alt) the nose is typically pointed at an angle away from the runway alignment

In a side slip (to stay aligned straight with runway for landing in wind) the nose is pointed straight down runway

So yea, aerodynamically they are the same thing but each has a different technique and purpose.

I was referring to side-slip when I asked, yes.

@Chock Re: the Commanche 250...you know I have/had that one but tbh it's been so many years for me that I've forgotten! What I recall about the rudder in FSX is that even if you would hold the rudder pressure steadily, after a few seconds of holding that pressure the rudder would fail and the tail would come around anyway...had the same issue performing coordinated turns. I always thought that it was an FSX'ism...but if the commanche had worked around that issue it wouldnt surprise me 🙂

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3 hours ago, dilore said:

I have a hard time to see how this could work in a crosswind situation.

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Crosswind_landing

It's quite common in GA with small aircraft.

This sideslip crosswind technique is to maintain the aircraft's heading aligned with the runway centerline. The initial phase of the approach is flown using the Crab technique to correct for drift. The aircraft heading is adjusted using opposite rudder and ailerons into the wind to align with the runway. This places the aircraft at a constant sideslip angle, which its natural stability will tend to correct.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crosswind_landing


Happy with MSFS 🙂
home simming evolved

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