Still worried about the flight model ... how planes move

[Chock 17,765]

Here's an idea Microsoft, and again I don't think it is beyond the power of a company with Microsoft's financial pull to manage this. Why not get either Chesley Sullenberger or Jeffrey Skiles to fly a landing in the default A320 and post that as a video on Facebook? Now that would be one hell of a promotional video.

Sure the default A320 might not have every system working, but if the flight modeling is at least half decent, I'm sure they'd be willing to give it a go. And failing this, maybe Mike Ray? After all, he has been the champion of promoting realistic airliner simming for years. Someone of this kind of caliber would really inject some style to the promotional efforts, and their credentials are beyond question.

 

Edited July 31, 2020 by Chock

[fogboundturtle 2,708]

The issue is that i don’t think the default airliner are ready for prime time yet. Judging the whole game on the a320neo or 747-8 would be a huge mistake.

[Chock 17,765]

Well in that case I would suggest that if the A320 can't manage a half decent demonstration of a five mile final to a touchdown at this point, then there is something really very badly wrong. The simulator is after all supposed to be an improvement on the preceding MS sims, and even the default airliners in FSX could manage a fairly good stab at something like that and moreso with something such as the FSL or Aerosoft 'Buses.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Chock

[overspeed3 410]

Yeah, Chock. Can't you just see Sully agreeing to test-fly the A320 in the brand spanking new Microsoft Flight Simulator?😅

[TuomasV 35]

We must have all seen this short clip a million times, but it's a hilarious reminder that even a slightly more realistic (albeit default) flight model can still look arcade or RC-like. 

I can't judge strongly based on the many videos without trying it myself, in spite of real world flying and countless, countless hours between FS7 and P3D. Sometimes just fine-tuning joystick input sensitivity made a huge difference to the feel of the craft.

Overall, how I see it: Either at launch the flight model is good, satisfactory or abysmal. If satisfactory, it will see tuning and 3PDs will do their magic in due time. If abysmal, which seems unlikely, I'm confident fixing it will be a top priority or otherwise they are knowingly letting down their core customer base - that would be bad for business, which is not what MS usually has in mind.

- Tuomas 

[LHookins 3,076]

7 minutes ago, TuomasV said:

Overall, how I see it: Either at launch the flight model is good, satisfactory or abysmal.

I think I'd pronounce it "flyable but unfinished."  The aircraft I've flown are pleasant to fly and I've had no problems.  Lots of people really like the Cessna 152 and Savage Cub.

Tonight I had a look through some of the aircraft files, and we can do some fine-tuning.  I did some changes on one file and they worked, but reverted them as we're not supposed to be messing with game files.  They don't want us messing up the telemetry they're collecting and I agree.

I want to wait and see what things are like at release.  I'll withhold judgement until then.

Hook

[Andiroto 37]

From my (limited) experience with modding airplanes for FSX i can say: Flight dynamics or adjusting aircraft behavior is a world for itself and i have always deepest respect for guys who knows what they doing when they open an .air file or changing FDE things in the aircraft.cfg! There will be also a lot of (new) settings in this sim for aircraft behavior! So nothing is lost in my opinion!

[LHookins 3,076]

Actually, I just remembered that one setting I was studying in an older version was handled differently in the most recent version.  Looks like they're still working on the flight model.

Hook

[Chock 17,765]

7 hours ago, overspeed3 said:

Yeah, Chock. Can't you just see Sully agreeing to test-fly the A320 in the brand spanking new Microsoft Flight Simulator?😅

If MS throw enough money at him, then yes. And since MS is the largest (by Market Capitalisation) company in the world (1,058 Billion Dollars), it's not like they're gonna struggle to put on a limo to pick the guy up, put him up in a flashy hotel for a day or two, then fly him home first class whilst throwing a few grand at him for the trouble of his effort.

I'm not suggesting he'd have to sell his soul to them, but if MS and Asobo really do think their sim is 'as real as it gets' and there's an A320 on the DVD cover and it is one of the main default planes, then they should be prepared to put some money where their mouth is.

The point is: Instead of banging out same old typical tired corporate cliche garbage promo videos with 'inspirational music track 003' dubbed over a lot of cherry-picked shots, which is precisely they have been doing, or letting videos posted on youtube by beta testers who couldn't fly a flag, much less an aeroplane, be the marketing for it, they could actually do something inventive and positive with it, which might even be informative and entertaining. They can feel free to hire me to think of any number of vastly better approaches to promoting the thing if they like, after all, it was my job to do that for years. 🤣

Edited July 31, 2020 by Chock

[Dominique_K 9,914]

2 hours ago, LHookins said:

I think I'd pronounce it "flyable but unfinished." 

You could have a job at State you know 😄. 

[FlyBaby 659]

12 hours ago, LHookins said:

Well... *I'm* not claiming to be any kind of expert.  I'm only claiming to have actually flown in MSFS.

Hook

And then he says this...

4 hours ago, LHookins said:

I think I'd pronounce it "flyable but unfinished."  The aircraft I've flown are pleasant to fly and I've had no problems.  Lots of people really like the Cessna 152 and Savage Cub.

Tonight I had a look through some of the aircraft files, and we can do some fine-tuning.  I did some changes on one file and they worked, but reverted them as we're not supposed to be messing with game files.  They don't want us messing up the telemetry they're collecting and I agree.

I want to wait and see what things are like at release.  I'll withhold judgement until then.

Hook

And this...

4 hours ago, LHookins said:

Actually, I just remembered that one setting I was studying in an older version was handled differently in the most recent version.  Looks like they're still working on the flight model.

Hook

Give a guy enough time, and he will eventually contradict himself. I am just going to leave this right here...

 

[fogboundturtle 2,708]

The issue is with the aircraft itself not the flight dynamics of the sim. You guys only have the tunnel vision of what is happening. If you are a hardcore tubers, the A320 and 747-8 will be far from scratching that itch.  You better just wait for the PMDG NG3. 

[Jnin 14]

2 hours ago, Chock said:

If MS throw enough money at him, then yes. And since MS is the largest (by Market Capitalisation) company in the world (1,058 Billion Dollars), it's not like they're gonna struggle to put on a limo to pick the guy up, put him up in a flashy hotel for a day or two, then fly him home first class whilst throwing a few grand at him for the trouble of his effort.

I'm not suggesting he'd have to sell his soul to them, but if MS and Asobo really do think their sim is 'as real as it gets' and there's an A320 on the DVD cover and it is one of the main default planes, then they should be prepared to put some money where their mouth is.

The point is: Instead of banging out same old typical tired corporate cliche garbage promo videos with 'inspirational music track 003' dubbed over a lot of cherry-picked shots, which is precisely they have been doing, or letting videos posted on youtube by beta testers who couldn't fly a flag, much less an aeroplane, be the marketing for it, they could actually do something inventive and positive with it, which might even be informative and entertaining. They can feel free to hire me to think of any number of vastly better approaches to promoting the thing if they like, after all, it was my job to do that for years. 🤣

Honestly I don't think a Sullenberger ad or promo video would really be all that much better than a cherry picked trailer with music over it. Ultimately it would do a lot of the same things a normal trailer would, and likely just as artificial as those trailers, only difference being that they'd have to pay a ton of money for basically a celebrity endorsement. And I don't think it would cover a different enough area to warrant it over just making another fancy trailer with music over it.

Having said that though I have to admit I'd still find it pretty cool if they actually did that to be perfectly honest.

[hangar 655]

19 minutes ago, FlyBaby said:

Give a guy enough time, and he will eventually contradict himself.

How about giving a guy a break? He's clearly just giving his own opinion and prefaced the entire thing by saying that he is not an expert. When people say this they are telling you to take things with a grain of salt because your own opinion may vary. He goes on to say that he feels the planes likely handle well enough for a beginning but will likely need some fine tuning for the more hard pressed/experienced simmers  and then he goes even further to mention that you can tweak some of the settings should you wish to experiment. He is not contradicting himself from what I see there, at all.

Don't bother bickering on a  forum about flight behaviors...I'm just saying that from my own experience you can ask 2 licensed and experienced pilots their opinion about the flying characteristics of a type of aircraft that they both own and you will end up with very different opinions on certain aspects. this has and may likely always be certain...and this is why when a developer tells me that their physics were tested by real pilots, I chuckle...every time.

In a few weeks time the forums will be full of arguments regarding physics...the only thing that can really be measured are the numbers, but "feel" and behavior will be argued about till the end of time.

Edited July 31, 2020 by hangar

[Slides 1,552]

1 minute ago, hangar said:

How about giving a guy a break? He's clearly just giving his own opinion and prefaced the entire thing by saying that he is not an expert. When people say this they are telling you to take things with a grain of salt because your own opinion may vary. He goes on to say that he feels the planes likely handle well enough for a beginning but will likely need some fine tuning for the more hard pressed/experienced simmers  and then he goes even further to mention that you can tweak some of the settings should you wish to experiment. He is not contradicting himself from what I see there, at all.

Don't bother bickering on a  forum about flight behaviors...I'm just saying that from my own experience you can ask 2 licensed and experienced pilots their opinion about the flying characteristics of a type of aircraft that they both own and you will end up with very different opinions on certain aspects. this has and may likely always be certain...and this is why when a developer tells me that their physics were tested by real pilots, I chuckle...every time.

In a few weeks time the forums will be full of arguments regarding physics...the only that can really be measured are the numbers, but "feel" and behavior will be argued about till the end of time.

 

So so so true. It's the same thing as driving a car and then playing a racing sim with the same car. Just because you have driven the same car, doesn't mean you are an expert on the feel of the car in the sim. Different people will have different opinions. We have to go by the numbers first.