Still worried about the flight model ... how planes move

[shivers9 1,173]

2 minutes ago, Chock said:

Nah, you want this if you want flight-related dating, and yes, this really is a game (on Steam):

How do you know all of this?? Do you ever sleep??? LOL!

[ShawnG 1,823]

2 hours ago, Chock said:

In physics a quantum leap is actually the smallest possible change. 🤣

I know what you mean though and I suspect you are probably right, or at least will be when some of those TPDs get their hands on it. 🙂

Lol, this.  In a previous corporate sales job, I attended a meeting with some superiors, where the company sales mantra was “Quantum Growth in 2002!”  There were brochures printed, banners flown, websites updated, etc...  I mentioned to them that words don’t mean what you want them to, and that what they were really asking for was growth so small that you would need a billion dollar microscope to see it.

 

I was included in the next round of job cuts.

 

Not sorry either.

[Chock 17,765]

Just now, shivers9 said:

How do you know all of this?? Do you ever sleep??? LOL!

I was doing a search on steam's store on Helicopters, which for those who like choppers did actually also turn this one up which looks cool and has just gone into beta:

https://www.linesstudio-graphisme.fr/

Back with Helicopter Dating Sim, it's actually pretty funny and is only seven quid if you want a bit of a laugh.

[Chock 17,765]

20 minutes ago, ShawnG said:

Lol, this.  In a previous corporate sales job, I attended a meeting with some superiors, where the company sales mantra was “Quantum Growth in 2002!”  There were brochures printed, banners flown, websites updated, etc...  I mentioned to them that words don’t mean what you want them to, and that what they were really asking for was growth so small that you would need a billion dollar microscope to see it.

 

I was included in the next round of job cuts.

 

Not sorry either.

I did a similar sort of thing once. Someone was throwing out all these stupid buzz words in a meeting once and amongst these, they said: 'I want blue-sky thinking on this, people!', whereupon I pointed out to him that the client we were working on ideas for at this meeting, was an Arabian-based company, and of course in Arabian countries, blue skies mean there is no rain, so it's not really regarded as something you want all the time.

We used to make fun of people who would use 'buzz phrases' all the time, you know the type, exactly like the horrible corporation guys who get knocked off in films such as Robocop and Aliens. Anyway, we devised a game to pass the time in these meetings, which we called W*** Word Bingo (the missing word rhymes with what the M1 Abrams is). Basically you get all the stupid buzz phrases and make them into a few bingo cards in excel or similar, print them off for you and your colleagues and have these under the table at a meeting, so you can see who wins when you mark off these idiotic phrases which inevitably get used by some of the corporate tools that you work with, because they think it makes them sound like a go-getter, instead of actually thinking of some good ideas, which is really how you impress people of course.

We actually expanded upon this, by occasionally making up preposterous-sounding phrases which sounded like they might be genuine ones these pillocks would use, and we'd throw them into the meetings, whereupon they would invariably be enthusiastically nodded at by people who are into that kind of stupid stuff. Some of these I have actually heard being used from time to time too. Ones we invented for this which I can recall included: 'Let's test the Kevlar on this baby', 'Let's take this up to the thirteenth floor', 'Let's grease the pan' and 'Let's bat the monkey'. And of these, I have genuinely heard people using the 'let's test the kevlar on this baby' in all seriousness. Quite a few times actually. Credit for that one goes to my ex missus, who at the time worked with me at an ad agency.

 

Edited July 31, 2020 by Chock

[ShawnG 1,823]

One of the reasons my job was cut, I’m sure was due to me pointing that out, and obviously not being a team player...

 

the other was, that the company actually achieved quantum growth that year, in the literal sense.

[sd_flyer 5,661]

2 hours ago, MarkSC said:

I think that those who are dissing the default planes without actually flying them are ignoring the fact that Asobo spent years working with the actual aircraft manufacturers, who presumably know how their planes should fly. Will every plane be perfect? Of course not.  But the new blade element style physics will ensure that we get a lot more realistic aerodynamics than exist in P3D. 

And those who flew many default airplanes in real life may disagree with such optimistic outlook 🙂

[Chock 17,765]

2 hours ago, MarkSC said:

I think that those who are dissing the default planes without actually flying them are ignoring the fact that Asobo spent years working with the actual aircraft manufacturers, who presumably know how their planes should fly.

Ironically, this is probably why there is no Boeing 737 MAX in the sim. Actually, it would be quite meta to have one on the select screen which just sat there doing nothing when you chose it whilst all your passengers walked over to an A320 in the background. 🤣

Edited July 31, 2020 by Chock

[WestAir 2,423]

I do have a degree in aeronautical science, a pilot certificate with a conservative number of ratings, and a small list of aircraft for which I've flown since the age of 15. I stopped working for the airlines in 2016 and now I operate heavy freight and commuter trains for the largest US railroad. I am, daily, in control of several millions of lbs of inertia at speeds up to 80mph. So I want to say I have an understanding of how heavy objects should feel, and how aircraft should feel:

And what I have seen in the videos has made me excited.

Cheers!

[LRBS 891]

6 hours ago, RudyB24 said:

I've been watching many of the newly released videos and of course I can only say 99% of the time MSFS looks stunning. We also can see it's not perfect yet. For one, the totally chaotic car traffic can be an immersion killer when flying low. But I guess things like this will be ironed out with updates.

The thing that keeps nagging at me though is the (in my eyes) sometimes strange or unnatural plane behavior. I have this feeling the stronguest with the Airbus ... my brain keeps telling me something is off. It feels too light, as if it has no inertia. All planes give me that feel by the way ... even the 747, a heavy weight, does it really wiggle like that?

There also were planes that maneuvered without any visible control surface movement, something that has been mentioned before. Then I think ... so far for the 1000 airflow calculations that make up for the flight dynamics. Apparerently the plane did not move based on those calculations, unless a control surface 'moved' deep down in the software but that info never reached the graphics module?

More often than not the flight model looks like straightforward joystick / yoke movements to me. One would hope at least via a sensitivity curve correction, followed by an inertia calculation, but I often feel the inertia is lacking which make the planes look like how the cars seemed to float over the roads in the first iterations of 'the Need for Speed'.

Today I watched some 10 planes perform a landing, real life ones I mean ... watching that is how my brain is 'programmed' on how planes move. Never did I see a plane move the way they do in MSFS.

I hope I'm all wrong and all will be fine ...

`

You are 100% correct, from what I see there is a huge problem related to how all the airplanes behave. Now it can be that many of the testers might have bad flight control systems (jokes or joysticks improperly calibrated), some of them aren't pilots and don't know better. It is obvious from the small videos how they fly the airplane that the majority are just desktop pilots, not real pilots from different equipment, so we might have an ugly surprise from what I see.

It is obvious that it was a great deal of effort in flight dynamics but from what I see there is no way to have an airplane to be so unstable at only 2 KTS wind change to behave like almost moderate turbulence.

Yes, it is Alpha, Beta, or whatever it is not a finished product yet, but why would you allow videos of the product to show this flaw?

I want to be wrong but what I see is not good at all.

[Adrian123 1,005]

Certainly be nice to see Beta thrust modeled in TP's. Not a huge XP fan but they have manged to get it working.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Adrian123

[FlyBaby 659]

3 hours ago, fogboundturtle said:

Blame Microsoft on that one. It's not my fault if they are very uptight about the NDA.  My point is that people should worried less because it's not as bad as portrait but not as good as people want it too with a default aircraft.

Of course MSFS is not to blame. They are not the ones trying to Lord the Boards like they have expert knowledge because they have an NDA. That one is on you...

 

3 hours ago, LHookins said:

There is a big difference between watching a video and actually controlling the aircraft.

Hook

Because you "know" firsthand how all of those default aircraft are suppose to react in real life...as it relates to the sim...their nuances etc.

Did you that same online MBA, I mean NDA as @fogboundturtle to make you an expert in all things MSFS?

[snglecoil 1,785]

1 hour ago, Slides said:

Well the first thing that needs to be fixed is the massive ego of elitist flight simmers. But since that's never going to happen, I'll settle for better wing flex.

You know, I apologize. That came across differently than I really intended. I know wing flex is a big deal for a lot of people. I was implying...rather ineffectively...that there appear to be concerns that some fundamentals still need more work than one would hope at this stage of the game. 

[tgsweat 141]

3 hours ago, FAZZ3 said:

I’d like to know more about your experience and flight hours in a commercial aircraft before your concerns about the flight model being unrealistic. 
 

Just because it’s different than what you’re used to, doesn’t mean it’s unrealistic. It could be the most realistic flight model ever made and you could have no clue about it. 

https://imgur.com/L6Lwivr

I get what you are saying, but for example Airboyd (flew 747's) is taking off in fully loaded 747 with a pretty good pitch angle and its already pass 200 knots very soon after take off.  Even he mentions that this is not real.  And i noticed it in other videos as well, just happy someone else noticed.  All the planes just seem to flight very "light" to me. Hopefully the 3rd parties will correct things like this.  

[KERNEL32 464]

In the video pointed out on page 3 of this thread, 7:33 mark where the aircraft gets "pushed" by the airflow when flipping back from being inverted - I've watched this at least 30 times and since a qualification to judge seems to be real world pilot - I've been since 1987 and I have NEVER seen anything like this in a flight simulator... Simply incredible physics just eyeballing it.

You would need to pay really close attention to the part when the aircraft just starts to turn from being inverted - the air "pushes" the aircraft toward the right side of screen for just a split second... I just tried to replicate this in P3D and couldn't even come close.

[fogboundturtle 2,708]

1 minute ago, FlyBaby said:

Of course MSFS is not to blame. They are not the ones trying to Lord the Boards like they have expert knowledge because they have an NDA. That one is on you...

 

Because you "know" firsthand how all of those default aircraft are suppose to react in real life...as it relates to the sim...their nuances etc.

Did you that same online MBA, I mean NDA as @fogboundturtle to make you an expert in all things MSFS?

I know exactly the reason why the plane reacts that way and the cause has nothing to do with flight dynamics. Of course you know more than the people who actually have 100s of hours in the alpha.  There is tons of bugs reported on every build and to make the assumption that we are all idiots because Asobo has not fixed it yet is stupid. There is real pilot and experience simmer in the alpha. Only on Avsim you get that kind pf attitude.  No wonder why people has deserted this place over the last few years.
 

So go back to your crusade about how you know everything because you watch some video on YT.