2 hours ago, MarkSC said:

Sorry of this was posted earlier (I haven’t read the whole thread), but at least for the 172, this guy flew one shortly after flying in the sim and says it had the “exact touch and execution” of the sim controls. https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/09/the-new-ms-flight-simulator-taught-me-how-to-fly-an-actual-plane

The man in question said he had never flown an aircraft before his experience with MSFS 2020. But whatever, please just look at the videos I've posted and compare with your own eyes.

 

Different aircraft but same premise:

https://youtu.be/UcIRTV64VVE?t=126

Regarding the stick movement, as I said earlier you can't expect a 10 inch retail joystick to reflect the same mechanics as the control units found in real aircraft...just never going to happen...that is a hardware issue.

Regarding the inertia...

first, these types of planes have very little inertia to begin with as one can see from the real video I posted...but...I understand what you are referring to and I see what is bothering you and I completely agree with Murmur's assessment in that this is a new physics engine which is bound to have growing pains and things like this will require alot of tweaking of the numbers involved...the problem there is that once you change one thing it will effect something else in a negative way. The numbers must be painstakingly done right from the time you build the plane, not after the fact or else it all becomes somewhat of a mess, which brings me to the next point...

...which is, this is a default aircraft and if you expect MS to spend the time making certain that every default plane fly's just right and reacts so closely to the real plane then you're setting yourself up for a world of hurt. It is an extremely time consuming chore to do this and part of the reason why 3rd party planes cost more than many are happy in spending these days.

My advice (not that anyone is asking for it, lol)...is to wait and see how it behaves and feels to you after week 2 of flying the sim yourself and to expect lots of issues like this with each of the planes out of the box. Your suspicions being proven true would not be a surprise...in fact it would be more like par for the course if history has taught us anything. That doesn't mean though, that it can't be tweaked or fixed or that 3rd party planes will all have the same issue. These are the same sort of issues we've always had in all sims...nothing new here. But for now most of this is speculation anyway until we get some real time with the real thing.

 

Edited August 6, 20205 yr by hangar

5 hours ago, robert young said:

Just one more example: In this video you can clearly see the stick inputs, which are tiny. The aircraft featured is bucking up and down like a very small RC aircraft with extremely low inertia, similar to a hobbiest RC plane that weighs 2 kilos, not 700+Kilos (350 times the mass) . The pitch twitchiness and general handling are totally implausible. The stick is being moved barely half an inch at times yet the reaction of the aircraft is commensurate with more than full deflection. Please watch to the end as things get more and more twitchy and absurdly toy-like the further in you get. If you cannot see this I despair!

 

The videos look fine, albeit with over-sensitive and aggressive control inputs but from all my flying experience in small pistons, twins, aerobatics, small and big jets there just isn’t any problem. 

A marginally bigger dead zone/input effectiveness curve would remedy any ‘problem’ you see in that video. He’s in a light-handling aircraft, going very quickly, making rapid inputs. It absolutely will be twitchy. 

Edited August 6, 20205 yr by 2reds2whites

Funny ...

Can someone explain when head wind is 40 knots why the IAS is not 40 knots? I would have guessed the pitot tube would measure 40?

 

Edited August 6, 20205 yr by RudyB24

There was an area in Microsoft FLIGHT where an error in the sim caused a constant 60/70 knot (I Think) wind.

Once we found it............ 😁

 

 

Edited August 6, 20205 yr by HiFlyer

16 minutes ago, RudyB24 said:

Funny ...

Can someone explain when head wind is 40 knots why the IAS is not 40 knots? I would have guessed the pitot tube would measure 40?

 

Yet another example. Look at the movement of that thing. I've seen small RC planes that shake and rattle with more inertia than this. BTW this has NOTHING to do with the "authenticity" of the flight model. You can achieve the same thing in any sim if you could switch the wind up to 45 knots. The level of ignorance demonstrated in some of these beta video commentaries is staggering.

Edited August 6, 20205 yr by robert young

57 minutes ago, 2reds2whites said:

The videos look fine, albeit with over-sensitive and aggressive control inputs but from all my flying experience in small pistons, twins, aerobatics, small and big jets there just isn’t any problem. 

A marginally bigger dead zone/input effectiveness curve would remedy any ‘problem’ you see in that video. He’s in a light-handling aircraft, going very quickly, making rapid inputs. It absolutely will be twitchy. 

I give up!

24 minutes ago, RudyB24 said:

Funny ...

Can someone explain when head wind is 40 knots why the IAS is not 40 knots? I would have guessed the pitot tube would measure 40?

 

One is a measurement of weather (raw wind data) and the other is measurement of speed of wind over/under the wing itself (well technically through the tube)...sometimes they match up but many times they may not.

Edited August 6, 20205 yr by hangar

Robert, we know Asobo reads this, all we can do now is wait and see. In the mean time, stay in cockpit view.

35 minutes ago, RudyB24 said:

Can someone explain when head wind is 40 knots why the IAS is not 40 knots? I would have guessed the pitot tube would measure 40?

Yeah, I wondered the same. The wind control is interesting. It wasn't apparent that you could just set a steady state wind without variability in gust factor. But theoretically I would expect the airspeed indicator to be impacted by relative wind more than shown in that video.

For comparison, I just loaded up the A2A C172 in P3D and just using the built in P3D weather customization. I selected "Severe wind (36kts)" pointed down the runway. To my surprise, the wind in P3D wasn't perfectly steady state and showed variability in gust factor. The airspeed indicator was fluctuating between 33 and 42 kts, which is what I would expect to see...and with the engine shut down, they even modeled the prop attempting to windmill with the stronger gusts. 

While I do think the flight modeling is reasonable (in the airplanes that I'm familiar with in real life), MSFS has some work left to do on the finer details.

Edited August 6, 20205 yr by snglecoil

On 7/30/2020 at 2:38 PM, 2reds2whites said:

There is nothing to worry about with the flight model. 

To borrow from the PMDG 737 thread;

 

 

Great to hear! Way too many assumptions in the community right now without first hand experience on the sim. Version 1.0 problems will be addressed in due time. There will be lots to enjoy and keep us busy during the initial release period. 

36 minutes ago, robert young said:

Yet another example. Look at the movement of that thing. I've seen small RC planes that shake and rattle with more inertia than this. BTW this has NOTHING to do with the "authenticity" of the flight model. You can achieve the same thing in any sim if you could switch the wind up to 45 knots. The level of ignorance demonstrated in some of these beta video commentaries is staggering.

He’s flying a 172 in 260/100g150 - what do you expect that to look like lol? If anything it’s underdramatic. 

Your issue is that what you think is reality isn’t reality. 

7 minutes ago, 2reds2whites said:

Your issue is that what you think is reality isn’t reality. 

I wonder if the reason rhymes with "explain a heaven".

Hook

Edited August 6, 20205 yr by LHookins

1 hour ago, RudyB24 said:

Can someone explain when head wind is 40 knots why the IAS is not 40 knots? I would have guessed the pitot tube would measure 40?

 

Maybe MFS is modeling wind boundary layer, with the wind speed decreasing towards the ground. So even if wind is set to say 40 knots, it would actually be weaker close to the ground where the aircraft is sitting. There's a competing sim that models this phenomenon as well.

17 minutes ago, 2reds2whites said:

He’s flying a 172 in 260/100g150 - what do you expect that to look like lol? If anything it’s underdramatic. 

Your issue is that what you think is reality isn’t reality. 

I still give up!