Just now, MatthewS said:

I'm glad we agree it can be either side.

sure, we just haven't established any credibility for you.

 

4 minutes ago, ShawnG said:

sure, we just haven't established any credibility for you.

 

Ah but you see it's not me making the ludicrous claims of 200+ full time devs and thousands of part time devs on the MSFS payroll. 

The credibility issue is one for him to resolve, not me. 🤦‍♂️

3 minutes ago, MatthewS said:

Ah but you see it's not me making the ludicrous claims of 200+ full time devs and thousands of part time devs on the MSFS payroll. 

The credibility issue is one for him to resolve, not me. 🤦‍♂️

you don't really "do" logic or reason do you?

you are challenging the claim established by the person in the best position to know.  the burden of proof and credibility is on you.  yes, authority is not sufficient in itself, but to counter it you have to offer at least some evidence.  You got nothing, other than denial, and an overwhelming willingness to make yourself look a fool on the internet anonymously.

24 minutes ago, ShawnG said:

yes, authority is not sufficient in itself

Yes, so we agree... His position is not sufficient to give creditability to his claims.  👍

Now, if you choose to accept his "truth" without evidence that's up to you, but I'm not prepared to ... It's quite simple really.

Edited September 2, 20205 yr by MatthewS
added "without evidence"

Having just re-joined Avsim after many years away from a flight simulator Psion being my first (

) and P3d version 1 being the last, I have to say that it is quite sad to see that there is still an element of some in the community moaning rather than getting out there and enjoying this beauty. MSFS2020 has jumped forward in many ways and will only get better. Give these developers some space and support to get on with their jobs.

 

Cheers Dave B ANZ121

4 hours ago, MatthewS said:

Ah but you see it's not me making the ludicrous claims of 200+ full time devs and thousands of part time devs on the MSFS payroll. 

The credibility issue is one for him to resolve, not me. 🤦‍♂️

I get it now, random Matthew S of the internet has more credibility despite making an equally ludicrous claim that as little as 10 people could be working on the project despite the developer recruiting 13 new positions in the last 12 weeks!

Makes total sense, sorry we ever doubted you.

57 minutes ago, DPSimulation said:

I get it now, random Matthew S of the internet has more credibility despite making an equally ludicrous claim that as little as 10 people could be working on the project despite the developer recruiting 13 new positions in the last 12 weeks!

Sorry, I don't believe there's 200+ full time developers and thousands of part time developers on the MSFS payroll, and certainty not going to simply believe the word of someone who has a vested interest in hyping MS's commitment.  🤷‍♂️

Can you post a link to these 13 new advertised positions, be interesting to see what these jobs actually are. 🤔

https://www.asobostudio.com/careers

11 minutes ago, DPSimulation said:

https://www.asobostudio.com/careers

Half of those are not even for MSFS, I stopped reading when I saw this:- "work on a project that has not yet been announced". 🤣 Oh let me guess you're going to say this new project is some MSFS DLC.

And what about "churn".

Like I said, I don't believe for one second there's 200+ full time developers and thousands of part time developers on the MSFS payroll. 

MSFS is basically cooked 🥧, it's just a matter of keeping the oven warm now, you know, fixing bugs, pushing out some DLC every few months.

All IMO ofc.

6 minutes ago, MatthewS said:

Half of those are not even for MSFS, I stopped reading when I saw this:- "work on a project that has not yet been announced". 🤣 Oh let me guess you're going to say this new project is some MSFS DLC.

 

I'm simply dealing in facts. I said 13 positions are being advertised for this simulator. There are 13 positions advertised for this simulator in the link I posted.

If you don't wish to read when people give you evidence then fine, but don't expect others to take your unsubstantiated guff seriously.

9 minutes ago, DPSimulation said:

I'm simply dealing in facts. I said 13 positions are being advertised for this simulator. There are 13 positions advertised for this simulator in the link I posted.

Ah, but you're not. I count 9 positions. I guess you're in the camp that counts "work on a project that has not yet been announced" as MSFS 🙄

Ofc you're free to believe there's 200+ full time developers and thousands of part time developers on the MSFS payroll. I don't.

Let's just agree to disagree.  Frankly, I'm not sure what the issue is...

 

Edited September 2, 20205 yr by MatthewS

21 minutes ago, MatthewS said:

Half of those are not even for MSFS, I stopped reading when I saw this:- "work on a project that has not yet been announced". 🤣 Oh let me guess you're going to say this new project is some MSFS DLC.

And what about "churn".

Like I said, I don't believe for one second there's 200+ full time developers and thousands of part time developers on the MSFS payroll. 

MSFS is basically cooked 🥧, it's just a matter of keeping the oven warm now, you know, fixing bugs, pushing out some DLC every few months.

All IMO ofc.

What does any of this argument have to do with Flight Simulation?

It sounds like you should join a business forum or go into predicative statistics (Blackshark.AI maybe), so then you can statistically analyze how many people are likely to be working on it and go argue in another forum?

No-one knows how many people are working on it unless you work at that company. Whether or not you are right based on speculation, or whether they are right based on "partial facts", neither argument can be absolved because there is and will not be a smoking gun resolution to where everyone can say "oh that's why". So this argument will never end and just go in circles.

My personal feeling at this point is that they are updating the SDK too slow, because some of those bugs are so "lazy" that it would literally take 3 minutes to fix (and i'm a programmer so I know how lazy some of the bugs in the SDK are).That said, I have no idea how many people are working on it, there can be all kinds of red tape reasons for slow updates.

I am still trying to remain positive overall, because in the end, it's a brilliant product.

Edited September 2, 20205 yr by SceneryFX

7 minutes ago, MatthewS said:

Ah, but you're not. I count 9 positions. I guess you in the camp that counts "work on a project that has not yet been announced" as MSFS 🙄

Ofc you're free to believe there's 200+ full time developers and thousands of part time developers on the MSFS payroll. I don't.

Let's just agree to disagree.  Frankly, I'm not sure what the issue is...

 

Indeed, i'm wrong, there are actually 14 positions advertised. Spin it however you want, they are there.

I completely believe there's probably still around 200 people working on the Flight Simulator team at Asobo, though I suspect a large contingent of them are working future DLC expansions like helicopters, or the console port, now that the v1.0 sim has shipped.  Some of those roles might be a bit fluid (such as artists), within Asobo itself, of course.

Outside of that, the numbers Neumann mentions seem to mostly be mentioning the size of the entire teams at some of their contractor partners, as well as the team at Bing, who obviously have duties beyond supporting Flight Simulator.  So no, I don't think there's THOUSANDS of people ACTIVELY still working on MSFS as their day-to-day job. The economics of that would be absurd, and Neumann himself doesn't really claim that anyway.  I'd be perfectly willing to believe that number of people had some involvement with the creation of MSFS at some point, however.  That would include support staff, QA testers, and so on.

And I don't believe for a nanosecond that there's as little as 10 people working on it now, lol.  I don't foresee a situation like that for possibly years, if and when Asobo finally transition to simply maintenance for the sim, ceasing any active development.

I'm surprised they have 200+ people working on this, i didn't know and that surely gives some confidence for its future. Nice.