So I thought about firing up P3D and/or XP last night...

[EGLD 452]

14 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

QW 787 out of KSEA in P3D V5.0 HF1 seems very good visually to me?

Cheers, Rob.

 

it does look great Rob, but what does it look like once you leave that area?

[omarsmak30 4,069]

14 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

QW 787 out of KSEA in P3D V5.0 HF1 seems very good visually to me?

Cheers, Rob.

 

Don't forget Rob you have Titan with at least 24gb of vram, but many of us here own cards with maximum 11gb vram and some of us suffer from the famous Hang error releated to the vram being out of memory because P3Dv5 is just not vram friendly. The only way I would avoid this issue by lowering down the sliders to state lower than my v4.5 config which makes the sim in my end to just look awful. 

And let's be honest, there is no way on earth that you'd compare P3D graphics with MSFS graphics. MSFS wins it, period. But P3D has its own other qualities like wide range of addons, airliners.. Etc

[tweekz 2,165]

8 hours ago, mtaxp said:

Yep, next gen on Vulkan sounds great for this case, only time will tell us how x-plane 12 will look.

How it looks like will be most important.

The complaints about performance are normal. People experiencing problems are vocal. You have the same with XP and Vulkan if you look in their forums. Even after spending half a year in public beta.

But most people are quite happy. For example, I got a i7 7700K, RX480 and 16GB and can play it smoothly with 40-50 fps on 1080p on HIGH / MEDIUM settings while looking significantly better than either XP or P3D.

MSFS actually doesn't run poorly. What matters for most people will be how XP looks. Not if it got 20% more fps. It will need to innovate visually - the same level is not enough anymore. But even then, I don't think it will significantly boost their user number compared to MSFS.

Edited September 24, 2020 by tweekz

[bobcat999 8,547]

I think the list of add-on's in the title of the P3D B787 video says it all really.  What would be the cost of those added together?  So comparing it to MSFS out of the box is like comparing apples to oranges.  Although I get the point that P3D can look good when you dress it up with these add-on's. 

[Nyxx 6,994]

1 hour ago, bobcat999 said:

I think the list of add-on's in the title of the P3D B787 video says it all really.  What would be the cost of those added together?  So comparing it to MSFS out of the box is like comparing apples to oranges.  Although I get the point that P3D can look good when you dress it up with these add-on's. 

Am not going to look them all up but around.

Orbx TE £30

AS £50

REX or ASCA £30

QW £75

CP £20

Airport £30

Around £225 and don't forget Rob PC around £4,000-£5,000. Titan, etc I think it might be evermore than one also.

I've spent into £ 0,000's on P3D addons. It's a great sim. I will still use and enjoy it.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Nyxx

[mtaxp 666]

Just now, tweekz said:

How it looks like will be most important.

The complaints about performance are normal. People experiencing problems are vocal. You have the same with XP and Vulkan if you look in their forums. Even after spending half a year in public beta.

But most people are quite happy. For example, I got a i7 7700K, RX480 and 16GB and can play it smoothly with 40-50 fps on 1080p on HIGH / MEDIUM settings while looking significantly better than either XP or P3D.

MSFS actually doesn't run poorly. So what will matter for most people is how XP looks. Not if it got 20% more fps. And there it will need to innovate! But even then, I don't think it will significantly boost their user number.

Vulkan\dx12 vs dx11 is not about the average FPS counter, it's about keeping a stable scene with stable FPS. You might not gain FPS, really depends on your case.

BUT

In DX11, if you have 40 fps and then turn your head, you'll have a major FPS drop for a moment. This may not be revealed by FPS counters, since we are talking about fraction of a second here. this is called a stutter, how bad it happens really depends on the specific scene.

There is NO way DX11 has no stutters, older API are limited, a known industry fact and sorry to sound like a douche, it's indisputable.

[tweekz 2,165]

1 minute ago, mtaxp said:

There is NO way DX11 has no stutters, older API are limited, a known industry fact and sorry to sound like a douche, it's indisputable.

You like to talk about the performance. 😄

[mtaxp 666]

26 minutes ago, tweekz said:

You like to talk about the performance. 😄

Since this is a thread about what XP\P3D should do to close the gap from MSFS, my main claim is that MSFS has more work to do on performance fixing since migrating API is a much larger task than adding new features.

I mean in my system x-plane now is like a mercedes; fast and stable. But this mercedes paint is chipped and scratched and the car look like word not allowed.

While MSFS is a lame dodge but with a beautiful paint and looks gorgeous.

The car for how good the engine performs, the paint is graphics, and fixing the paint is much easier and faster. this is the current case, msfs -> dx12, xp\p3d -> new graphic features. the latter is just easier and faster to do, tech wise, +100 if you are on a next gen api.

All of my explanations about industry, so you understand that better graphics does not always mean worse FPS especially in a new major version. If current 2d clouds drags your fps 60 -> 30 (sounds like vsync is on and cuts fps in half more than clouds bad performance btw); this doesn't mean whatever 3D clouds they'll have in V12 will perform worse, since 3d clouds also takes better advantage of hardware mainly GPU.

Edit: and here we are not even talking about the fact that MSFS has a long way to mature to be suitable for us as serious flight simmers. and if they move DX12 this might break existing products. so yeah..MSFS should hurry up to close those gaps otherwise they might be even bigger.

Edited September 24, 2020 by mtaxp

[JoeFackel 760]

The year 2020. The year when Flightsimmers traded in-depth flightsimulation for looks.

[tweekz 2,165]

8 minutes ago, mtaxp said:

Since this is a thread about what XP\P3D should do to close the gap from MSFS, my main claim is that MSFS has more work to do on performance fixing since migrating API is a much larger task than adding new features.

As long as it runs OK I prefer it to look better than to run smoother/faster. How were we able to play games before Vulkan / DX12? 😉

That being said, afaik MS/ASOBO are working on DX12 anyway.

What really sets MSFS and XP/P3D apart are the resources they have at hands. While XP got about 12 guys + contractors, ASOBO consists of 200 + contractors. They can work on multiple things the same time.

Second argument is the kind of religious cult of loyal parts of the XP community.

[roi1862 611]

2 hours ago, Nyxx said:

Am enjoying MSFS to much to start P3D up. All out the box 🙂

 

Live weather, real time, no long list of addons needed. All at 45+ FPS on a 6 year old PC.

I will keep P3D v5 for airliners as MSFS is not there yet, but frankly as you see above, I am enjoying this far more. Aircraft fidelity is one side of sim'ing but so is the world looking like the real world not land class etc. Sure the haters find faults here and there ( o look a giant leaf or a object at an airfield, perthitic, show the other 360 view ) but they don't show the other 90% that's breath-taking. Enjoy your sim. Let others enjoy there's and if you not so narrow minded you can enjoy as many as you like.

David, what LOD do you use ?

[CFIJose 5,485]

49 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

Am not going to look them all up but around.

Orbx TE £30

AS £50

REX or ASCA £30

QW £75

CP £20

Airport £30

Around £225 and don't forget Rob PC around £4,000-£5,000. Titan, etc I think it might be evermore than one also.

Ive spent into £ 0,000's on P3D addons. Its a great sim. I will still use it.

You forgot to add $60 to $200 for sim.

[Nyxx 6,994]

4 minutes ago, roi1862 said:

David, what LOD do you use ?

[Nyxx 6,994]

2 minutes ago, DJJose said:

You forgot to add $60 to $200 for sim.

Well no mate, 🙂 because MSFS cost also for the base sim. Unless people buy the £200 version for P3D ^^

[roi1862 611]

1 minute ago, Nyxx said:

And you flying locked 42fps with this ??