No mention of an AP fix in the next patch - Unacceptable

[bean_sprout 1,201]

8 hours ago, JRBarrett said:

It may not be an easy fix because it does not affect all users. I have had zero issues with the autopilot in the TBM since the patch came out.

Hence an extensive root cause analysis is required.  More time is required.

Regards

bs

[bean_sprout 1,201]

3 hours ago, Rimshot said:

 

See what you did @bean_sprout? 😄

I hope that I pushed all the right buttons.  I got the seed for the idea off of the Flight Sim forum not knowing it was a bluff.

Cheers

bs

[Ron Attwood 3,472]

27 minutes ago, Scottoest said:

and not let peoples' imaginations run wild with how perfect and amazing everything was going to be

That was going to happen anyway. Even if Asobo said 'This sim ain't gonna be 'all that'' people would swear it was a double bluff and still let the imaginations run wild. 😄

[wthomas33065 994]

26 minutes ago, Scottoest said:

I actually do think that in retrospect, they should've done a little more expectations management in the run-up to release, and not let peoples' imaginations run wild with how perfect and amazing everything was going to be

Or perhaps individually we could have not let our imaginations run wild and take responsibility for our own unrealistic expectations.  Wouldn't that be something?

[n4gix 4,949]

3 hours ago, RSS46 said:

Asobo didn´t fix the AP problem simply because they don´t know how to do it...

Frankly, it is posts like your's above that makes me regret that we removed the "Downvote" option... 😐

[fppilot 4,389]

5 hours ago, Rimshot said:

See what you did @bean_sprout?

😡

[Donstim 109]

4 hours ago, Moria15 said:

I think people neeed to be a tad more proactive as well...  I know they look at the votes on the main forums and they state that they watch other forums, including this one, there is one true tracker that I am sure they use and that is Zendesk.

If you have an issue and you haven't reported it on Zendesk, then frankly you don't have an issue or a right to complain about it not being fixed..  all the voting in the world is just going to be a nice to have for Marketing to make good noises about.

I have filed 4 Zendesk issues since launch, and whilst they would not have achieved many ( if any ) votes in the main forums, in the last update 3 of the 4 were fixed..  none made the patch notes, but they were fixed all the same along with the other 600+ bug fixes and edge cases..

So,  if you have time to complain on the forum, you have time to file a Zendesk issue and that is way more likely to get some attention.

Graham

+10 for this. I don't really understand this whole thing about describing an issue you are having in a forum post, get people to vote on it (which might include advertising and marketing it), and then having Asobo only list those issues and bugs in what looks like a priority list. In the meantime, they have a Zendesk system where reports are supposed to be detailed enough for developers to recreate the issue, but these issues do not get widely publicized and itemized in a priority list. Yet, I have to think (and hope) that it is the Zendesk reports that are the primary ones used to actually identify bug/fixes and set priorities.

[bean_sprout 1,201]

There is a whole industry devoted to online reviews (negative or positive).  I'm sure that not even Avsim is immune to this.

Just something to think about in addition to worrying if your email account has been hacked.

 

Cheers

bs

[marsman2020 1,310]

Just did a test flight in the TBM930, which I've flown probably 40 hours on before patch 1.9.3, but not since.

The oscillations showed up in FLC mode set to 152KIAS.  The oscillations started small but by 28,000 feet were almost bad enough to prevent the AP from capturing the altitude and entering 'ALT' mode - in which case it would just stay 'stuck' in FLC mode and would have kept oscillating forever.  However once it did capture the altitude, it trimmed out to a constant level flight with no problem.

The 'Max Climb' speed in the POH is 124KIAS, so it seems like this should work fine with no oscillation. 

I suspect that in VS mode this wouldn't occur, that the instability is based on the speed of the PID loop in the FLC autopilot.  Won't be able to test any further tonight.

[Scottoest 1,561]

14 hours ago, wthomas33065 said:

Or perhaps individually we could have not let our imaginations run wild and take responsibility for our own unrealistic expectations.  Wouldn't that be something?

Let's suppose I just said "okay sure" to this point - what then?  Asobo are still left with a situation of expectations that have gotten out of step with what they are making for their v1.0 release, that needs to be handled.  So you end up right where I started with my original point.

[KenG 492]

13 hours ago, Donstim said:

+10 for this. I don't really understand this whole thing about describing an issue you are having in a forum post, get people to vote on it (which might include advertising and marketing it), and then having Asobo only list those issues and bugs in what looks like a priority list. In the meantime, they have a Zendesk system where reports are supposed to be detailed enough for developers to recreate the issue, but these issues do not get widely publicized and itemized in a priority list. Yet, I have to think (and hope) that it is the Zendesk reports that are the primary ones used to actually identify bug/fixes and set priorities.

Asobo could fix the issue of crash reporting by including proper bug reporting tool inside of the game. How many times have I had a CTD gone to Windows crash reporting tool to find nothing. This would also help with bugs a sort of capture the sim state at the moment of the bug (or when report a bug is pressed) and include it as part of the report as well as the users dxdiag file. 

Basides Zendesk does not go to Asobo, it gets filtered by Microsoft and every few weeks to a month someone at Microsoft mass "solves" the reports. Whereas, Asobo gets the top 20 bugs and wish list items and directly comments on those. It takes exactly the same amount of time for me to create a post on the MSForums and promote it for voting as it does to create a Zendesk ticket. 

 

[Dillon 2,197]

19 hours ago, wthomas33065 said:

Or perhaps individually we could have not let our imaginations run wild and take responsibility for our own unrealistic expectations.  Wouldn't that be something?

We had a thread back in August about this very thing where I brought up the control Microsoft has on this version is more than we've seen before.  My take on it was just that, don't have any expectations about where this could go and get too comfortable with it.  Microsoft down the road could start charging us for usage, charging more to third party vendors who add content to the store, or roll back on detailed areas/features we expected to always be there as it was upon release.  This is to name a few unknown possibilities.  Had no idea we'd be forced to patch (by contrast we're not forced to patch Windows as a faulty patch could adversely affect the OS which has happened), existing working features to get broke with no quick turn around for resolution, and extra 'Premium' content (Longitude for example) to be put on the back burner in priority to fix.  

If I change something on the servers at my job that bring down a feature I better have that back up within hours.  Break fixes aren't wish list items.  That's the standard in IT in general.  I know this is an entertainment title but the same 'should' apply. You don't break key features and move on to other items with no timeframe to fix what you broke.  But alas that expectation is not realistic and too much to ask in some people's mind even though it's industry standard.  I'm not asking 'FIX THE ATC NOW' as that's still not fully realized.  But don't break a key element in the sim and leave it there hanging.  So this high horse some are on because this doesn't affect the bird their flying is troubling.  Down the road it will knock on your door at some point.  You load up the TBM for example and it won't start because Asobo changed something and they tell you it's on the list to get fixed maybe in the middle of 2021.  This is a problem especially the more we add to the sim.  Those used to flying Bush missions in Alaska load up any airport in the area and find the sim constantly crashes after the last patch (everyone's having the issue). Asobo says, "Oh, we can't reproduce it. We'll get to it maybe in the 4th quarter of 2021".    There's no unrealistic expectations here, this is just common decency.  Break fix should be a priority over features, new scenery, and all else. Things happen but fix the issue that was working then move on.

The bottom line is actions like this from a developer is a product killer.  Customers jump in the sim and find things they like.  All of a sudden it's broke in a following 'forced' patch.  They say o.k. it will be fixed in the next patch only to find it's been dropped.  They move on to something else, it get's broke in a following patch with no fix in sight.  At some point people move on for lack of confidence in the product.  From there the user base get's lower and lower and at some point we have another FLIGHT on our hands.  I want this to succeed but I'm not holding my breath if Asobo doesn't turn this around.  I'm really expecting the 'Dolphin Dance' to get fixed in the next patch as that's a break fix (in every other IT sector it would have been corrected right after the faulty 1.9 patch was released).  If it doesn't that's saying allot...  

Edited October 11, 2020 by Dillon

[Bert Pieke 7,585]

2 hours ago, Dillon said:

I'm really expecting the 'Dolphin Dance' to get fixed in the next patch as that's a break fix

Everyone has their "top issue" and you will just have to be little bit patient 🙂

It looks to me as if they are aware and working on it... lets see what Thursday brings!

Asobo has a lot on their plate right now.. they could use some encouragement from their user base 😉

[March Hare 720]

5 hours ago, Dillon said:

(in every other IT sector it would have been corrected right after the faulty 1.9 patch was released).  If it doesn't that's saying allot...  

Indeed. It's saying that games development is more complicated than general IT problems (and it doesn't fall under the umbrella of IT, anyway).

Games are often shipped with bugs (partly because the publisher, Microsoft in this case, insists on meeting their deadline; in part because some bugs just aren't detected by anyone before release, believe it or not), and sometimes those issues take weeks or months and many patches to be resolved. It also happens (frequently -- even if you, the user, never sees many of them) that new bugs are introduced. What's incredibly common are the pronouncements, on gaming forums, that "this must be so simple to fix" and "this should only take X amount of time to be fixed", because all these gamers clearly know better than the people who made it and continue to work stupidly long, stressful hours after release to improve the product.

Often, when I meet up with my brother, who has worked on some bestselling titles across multiple platforms, he is exhausted and stressed. This is when things are going well. When they aren't going so well, it's because he's dealing with perhaps a single bug in his sections of code. Ironically, he might be lamenting to me that "this should be so simple to fix", after he's already spent days on it, searching his and fellow programmers' code. Meanwhile, other members of the team who are working on their bits are uploading new builds that interact with his and can break even more things. Factoring in time to compile the code with each change, too, which can take a long time itself (incidentally, a project he's been working on takes well over 100GB of RAM just to compile the code, even though it will run on a small amount of user RAM). This is just a glimpse of what's going on behind the scenes, between internal meetings and more meetings with (and pressure from) the publisher's executives.

And one other important point: all the team members are passionate about what they're working on, and trying to make it the best it can be, within so many constraints.

 

 

 

 

[Donstim 109]

8 hours ago, KenG said:

Basides Zendesk does not go to Asobo, it gets filtered by Microsoft and every few weeks to a month someone at Microsoft mass "solves" the reports. Whereas, Asobo gets the top 20 bugs and wish list items and directly comments on those. It takes exactly the same amount of time for me to create a post on the MSForums and promote it for voting as it does to create a Zendesk ticket. 

 

Where did you get that from? I've had direct responses within days that bugs I've identified have been acknowledged and added to their internal bug and issue tracker.

If your Zendesk aren't any more complete than most forum posts, that could explain why your reports don't go anywhere.

Edited October 11, 2020 by Donstim