My view on MSFS now, 2 months after release

[eslader 1,814]

52 minutes ago, ShawnG said:

increase the amount of variables?

And then change the values of those variables several times a second...

 

[LarryD 132]

2 hours ago, marsman2020 said:

I paid for a product, I expect the product to work. 

Yes you did.  You paid $60.00.  Anything over that was not for the flight simulator but for extras.  And to quote part of an article from Aviation Today.....

FAA-qualified full flight simulators can cost $10 million. Full-time equivalent (FTE) Level six and seven trainers without motions still cost up to $1 million.

And you paid $60.00!  You truly weren't expecting it to work like a million dollar simulator right out of the box, were you?  If so, problem identified.

I also noticed you use the word SHOULD a lot describing what everyone else SHOULD have done.  Say this to yourself.

I SHOULD have waited to buy this $60.00 product until I knew that it would meet my expectations.  

 

[eslader 1,814]

2 minutes ago, LarryD said:

FAA-qualified full flight simulators can cost $10 million.

Heck, when the old Northwest Airlines training facility got torn down to make room for the Vikings' training camp, they auctioned off the old level-D sims. They went for thousands, not including transport fees, and they didn't even work anymore.

 

 

[rtodepart 761]

5 minutes ago, LarryD said:

And you paid $60.00!  You truly weren't expecting it to work like a million dollar simulator right out of the box, were you?

turn this line into some kind of  vaccine that should be a requirement when you buy anything from FSX to now FS2020 . 

Edited October 17, 2020 by rtodepart

[marsman2020 1,310]

4 minutes ago, LarryD said:

Yes you did.  You paid $60.00.  Anything over that was not for the flight simulator but for extras.  And to quote part of an article from Aviation Today.....

FAA-qualified full flight simulators can cost $10 million. Full-time equivalent (FTE) Level six and seven trainers without motions still cost up to $1 million.

And you paid $60.00!  You truly weren't expecting it to work like a million dollar simulator right out of the box, were you?  If so, problem identified.

I also noticed you use the word SHOULD a lot describing what everyone else SHOULD have done.  Say this to yourself.

I SHOULD have waited to buy this $60.00 product until I knew that it would meet my expectations.  

 

FS 2.1 running on an 8 MHz 8088 would trim out to straight and level flight without weird pitch oscillations.

Pardon me for expecting that in 2020 on a modern machine with thousands of time the resources they could manage to deliver a basic flight model that works.

[Isaiah53six 134]

7 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

 

😉 Sometimes it feels like we're back in the dark ages of Christian Crusades to kill all the unbelievers.

You mean the Catholic Crusades against the Muslim invaders.

[scotchegg 4,240]

59 minutes ago, marsman2020 said:

FS 2.1 running on an 8 MHz 8088 would trim out to straight and level flight without weird pitch oscillations.

I can usually trim. This guy can trim (From 3:28):

Are you sure you're doing it right?

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,799]

2 hours ago, marsman2020 said:

Physics is physics.  I'm sure that there's a bunch of equations from textbooks in the sim right now.  I also think they have used fixed fudge factor coefficients in areas where their math was off which causes things like broken dynamic pitch instability.

Real world weather is a classic example of a chaotic system. It is never going to be successfully represented by a bunch of equations and a few fudge factors.

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,799]

22 minutes ago, scotchegg said:

I can usually trim. This guy can trim (From 3:28):

Are you sure you're doing it right?

It is not 100% clear he is doing it right in that clip. You are meant to hold the desired attitude with stick/yoke and then trim up so any stick/yoke forces are removed. If you "fly with trim" you usually end up over trimming and can be chasing the trim wheel forever.

The oscillation problem is a different issue, some aircraft like that Cessna in the clip seem to be a lot more stable in level flight that others, regardless of trim.

It is unclear if that oscillation is trim related or whether trim just reveals it .

Note there are known issues with trim in the sim that seem to involve a coupling of trim and elevator axis.

Edited October 17, 2020 by Glenn Fitzpatrick

[wthomas33065 994]

1 hour ago, marsman2020 said:

FS 2.1 running on an 8 MHz 8088 would trim out to straight and level flight without weird pitch oscillations.

Pardon me for expecting that in 2020 on a modern machine with thousands of time the resources they could manage to deliver a basic flight model that works.

You mean the same FS 2.1 that had ZERO atmospheric modelling at all.  That did not simulate winds or weather of any kind.  That modelled NO external forces on the airframe?

You mean THAT FS2.1.?   And you call that a "flight model that works"?   

 Weather wasn't even modelled until FS4, so OF COURSE it was easy to trim out a plane.

Oh and how much did that FS2.1 cost in today's dollars,  $75.00.  So yeah, go ahead and complain about how far your $60.00 buys you today.

Do you even THINK about what you are spouting before typing it out?  I mean really, it's getting a little laughable at this point.  

Edited October 17, 2020 by wthomas33065

[marsman2020 1,310]

11 minutes ago, wthomas33065 said:

Do you even THINK about what you are spouting before typing it out?  I mean really, it's getting a little laughable at this point.  

Totally laughable that I'd think 140 people working on something for 4 years and then being sold as a finished product (not early access) would produce a finished working product......

29 minutes ago, scotchegg said:

I can usually trim. This guy can trim (From 3:28):

Are you sure you're doing it right?

The 152 is probably the best of the bunch in terms of pitch stability.

11 minutes ago, wthomas33065 said:

Oh and how much did that FS2.1 cost in today's dollars,  $75.00.  So yeah, go ahead and complain about how far your $60.00 buys you today.

Why do people seem to think that we aren't entitled to a working product for our money?

 

 

Edited October 17, 2020 by marsman2020

[scotchegg 4,240]

6 minutes ago, marsman2020 said:

Why do people seem to think that we aren't entitled to a working product for our money?

Who said that?

[GSalden 4,700]

It all comes down to what expectations someone has :

Some accept all issues and for them it is a starting point to where they are convinced that it will be much better over time. And several defend MSFS as a negative post should not be posted ( a negative post = garbage ). 

Others, like myself, feel that it has to many issues and should not have been released at all. Then the issues and the way they are being resolved or perhaps not results in disappointment. And it is not about how many it costs ; it is about a far from finished product from what we have seen lots of appealing vids where it all worked great. 
Several users keep pointing to these issues multiple times. 
And some can’t understand why others are so positive about the MSFS future as they think that there is no stable base and looking at the roadmap might even take a while if all...

Again : all comes down to you and what you expect...

 

[scotchegg 4,240]

16 minutes ago, GSalden said:

And several defend MSFS as a negative post should not be posted ( a negative post = garbage ).

Again, literally nobody is saying that. 

And there are countless posts with a similar pattern on the P3D forum, yet funnily enough I haven’t seen you saying others are flaming complainers when they disagree with them there...

[JacquesBrel 641]

Unfulfilled desires and expectations will often cause frustration and unhappiness. I think some dude named Buddha said the solution was to just never care about stuff that's bogus and a hassle, and eventually your soul will be transported to Hasslefreevania. I'm no expert on religion though.

For my part I just try to have reasonable expectations about most things in life, and so I'm often just reasonably satisfied with how things turn out, which is a reasonably nice feeling actually. And I'm just reasonably satisfied with how MFS is right now and where it's heading.

But what's reasonable to one person can strangely enough be unreasonable to another. And sometimes we just need to accept that.