1 hour ago, GSalden said:

All forums about MSFS are full of complaints about issues...

All forums about all Sims are full of complaints and issues. I can guess without even bothering to look that at this very moment our Legacy Sim forums have lots of people asking for help. It's been that way every single day , literally for years.

16 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I remember when folks complained about P3D bugs and demanded fixes now, took 2 weeks for a HotFix often followed by another HotFix a week or two later.  Those same people are ironically very tolerant of MS/Asobo fixes come 2 months later ... where was your tolerance before MSFS??

Well, the tolerance is there for all to see in the extensive history of P3D posts complaining about bugs and crashes. What percentage of this website’s CTD forum is dedicated to P3D crashes do you think?

1 hour ago, GSalden said:

The question is : would you have purchased it if you knew upfront that multiple ac did not work correctly and it might had issues with DL and starting up ?

Hehe.....reading thru this thread, I am thoroughly entertained by the all the social norms we see in this small, microcosm that is the flightsim bubble. Freud would have gone into shock with over-stimulation, seeing what he studied his whole life, all wrapped up in such a compact little world.  We have it ALL here, no doubt.

I'm not saying this in jest or to mock "us" (as I'm just one of many in this social melting pot)....I am really enjoying this.  It's wavering back and forth on the edge of lockdown when some get a little personal, but an excellent overall read....maybe one of the best-mannered "Opinion" posts to date. 🙂

So many posts I wanted to reply to....but Gerard's caught my attention, because like I've done in other posts...I love adding humor and parodies to Hollywood's best movies when they are begging to be shown...in regards to his "would you have purchased it if you knew upfront"...my mind instantly went here: (I know...I'm donating my brain to science when I go....to help scientists figure out why I'm so "Abby-something"...yet another quip from a very famous movie...who knows what movie?) 🤣

Hehe....what's really gonna "bake someone's noodle" is if the Oracle told him exactly what MSFS was going to be...would he have bought it anyway? 🙂

 

Something to enjoy without “bugs” 😆

 

 

2 hours ago, GSalden said:

The question is : would you have purchased it if you knew upfront that multiple ac did not work correctly and it might had issues with DL and starting up ?

Funny thing that.  I was in the Alpha/Beta, had 95 hours logged.  I knew very well what problems the sim had.  I remember well the meltdown that happened when the release was announced when no one thought it was ready.

And I still purchased. 

I did not pre-order and I did not purchase on day 1, I waited two days to see what the community reaction would be like and to see if the rumors might be true that there was a more advanced version of MSFS than we had that was being released.

I can't confirm this, but I strongly suspect that a lot of Alpha/Beta testers bought the retail version as well.  We all knew exactly what the sim was at the time.

And I'm not sorry I did purchase.  Despite flaws, the magic is still there.

Hook

2 hours ago, GSalden said:

The question is : would you have purchased it if you knew upfront that multiple ac did not work correctly and it might had issues with DL and starting up ?

Yes. Exactly as I knew that FSX, DCS, IL2, XP 10, XP 11, RDR2 AC Odyssey etc, etc, all had / continue to have feature / performance / download issues. I just like the projects.

2 hours ago, tonywob said:

 just because many don't agree with that opinion, he's branded a troll.

I think part of the mindset of some of the frequent MSFS champions (not hard to tell who) is they went all in on the sim and refuse to see it through anything other than rose tinted glasses. And if someone comes in here to distort that view, they pile on.

Edited October 16, 20205 yr by B777ER

7 hours ago, GSalden said:

That is very good news. Does it fly like it should in this way ? 

Myself I have Prosim. They have their own ac with a VC without panels and that should mean that the outside view stutters, caused by the default onscreen GC should be solved...

However they are waiting for an enhanced SDK.

Yes, the aircraft movement is very smooth indeed. When making a very sharp turn during taxi, you will see a very small amount of stutter in the MSFS 747 rudder, but other than that the aircraft control is flawless. 

When using P3D as a scenery generator  for PSX it requires installing offset files (created by running John Dowson’s makerwys program), as the runway coordinates in FSX/P3D do not directly correspond to those of PSX in most cases, but MSFS appears to be georeferenced to exactly the same coordinate system as PSX so this is not necessary.

The PSX flap and gear controls will directly control those in the “driven” MSFS 747, as will the landing light switches. 

When initializing the WidePSX program you can choose to either automatically slew the MSFS airplane to the PSX starting position, or vice-versa.

2 minutes ago, B777ER said:

I think part of the mindset of some of the frequent MSFS champions

What forum am I in?

Why did AVSIM create this forum, if not for its enthusiasts?

11 minutes ago, LHookins said:

...

I can't confirm this, but I strongly suspect that a lot of Alpha/Beta testers bought the retail version as well.  We all knew exactly what the sim was at the time.

And I'm not sorry I did purchase.  Despite flaws, the magic is still there.

Very well said. I knew what I would get after using it for half a year. I knew it would have issues and I didn't expect a miracle to happen with the release version either. Nonetheless, I bought it upon release and still enjoy what I got.

In my eyes, it's the way into the future, and while it may be a bit of a bumpy way I don't see me to go back into the (LC-based) past.

Kind regards, Michael

16 minutes ago, B777ER said:

I think part of the mindset of some of the frequent MSFS champions (not hard to tell who) is they went all in on the sim and refuse to see it through anything other than rose tinted glasses. And if someone comes in here to distort that view, they pile on.

I think part of the mindset of some of the frequent MSFS bashers (not hard to tell who) is that as it doesn't meet their expectations they refuse the idea that anyone can actually enjoy the sim, even with its shortcomings. And if someone comes in here to distort that view, they pile on.

JP

1 hour ago, HiFlyer said:

Now our Legacy Sims have two choices: step up to the plate and drop the complacency in a captive Market that's led to years of glacial progress

I don´t think it was those developers choice or complacency to make their simulators look like they do. It was necessity.

As far as the terrain goes - where do you think Asobo would be if not big rich uncle Microsoft had come in and said: "Here, there is all of our satellite and photogrammetry data, plus unlimited access to all the computing power that you can possibly want, put the world into this new flying game!".

I think that simply no over developer - except Google, if they put their heart to it - would be able to match that, simply because they lack the raw material to build the same landscape. Not now and not in 10 years. The data is foundation, no data, not photorealistic world.

It is a bit different for lighting and weather - here I have to concede your point. We still have to respect that the foundation for those simulators was laid down many years ago, when mainstream hardware was simply not able to put out pictures like this at a sufficient rate. I think the other simulators (yes, FlyBaby, I root for X-Plane, call me a troll and a fanboi!) will catch up in that regard in the not too distant future.

You can´t copyright real weather and lighting 😉

Cheers, Jan

 

4 minutes ago, JRBarrett said:

Yes, the aircraft movement is very smooth indeed. When making a very sharp turn during taxi, you will see a very small amount of stutter in the MSFS 747 rudder, but other than that the aircraft control is flawless. 

When using P3D as a scenery generator  for PSX it requires installing offset files (created by running John Dowson’s makerwys program), as the runway coordinates in FSX/P3D do not directly correspond to those of PSX in most cases, but MSFS appears to be georeferenced to exactly the same coordinate system as PSX so this is not necessary.

The PSX flap and gear controls will directly control those in the “driven” MSFS 747, as will the landing light switches. 

When initializing the WidePSX program you can choose to either automatically slew the MSFS airplane to the PSX starting position, or vice-versa.

This is my newfound love (not you Jim 😄), the Aerowinx PSX. I can run MSFS, PSX, Navigraph charts, Pilot2ATC, WidePSX, PFPX and TopCat all at the same time, on one computer with 4k screen. All this with smooth as butter graphics that no other simulator can provide. The icing on the cake, it can run in acceleration mode up to 64 times speed ( I've only tested it to 32X) without affecting the sim.

24 minutes ago, JRBarrett said:

Yes, the aircraft movement is very smooth indeed. When making a very sharp turn during taxi, you will see a very small amount of stutter in the MSFS 747 rudder, but other than that the aircraft control is flawless. 

When using P3D as a scenery generator  for PSX it requires installing offset files (created by running John Dowson’s makerwys program), as the runway coordinates in FSX/P3D do not directly correspond to those of PSX in most cases, but MSFS appears to be georeferenced to exactly the same coordinate system as PSX so this is not necessary.

The PSX flap and gear controls will directly control those in the “driven” MSFS 747, as will the landing light switches. 

When initializing the WidePSX program you can choose to either automatically slew the MSFS airplane to the PSX starting position, or vice-versa.

Thanks for sharing 👍

22 minutes ago, Janov said:

You can´t copyright real weather and lighting 😉

The issue for me is, how much of this new impetus would even exist if not for the encroachment of msfs?

Wherefore do we think this sudden interest in clouds and Atmospherics and lighting has come from, when before, there was only the most modest and gradual of improvements from the Developers?

How many times have we heard from third parties that they couldn't lmplement things that they wanted to do because the Developers would not even give them access?

 How many times were we promised things like seasons that never appeared, but I suspect are suddenly quite a bit more likely to, now that msfs has arrived?

And Yes, I'm deliberately using the word complacency, because our Sims had years and years to do so many things, but the developers Simply had other priorities, like giving us more and more alphabet soup and buttons to press, until this genre of gaming became so technical and  obscure that nobody was interested anymore except for a tiny niche of enthusiasts and grounded Pilots?

Why did I pay for several versions of Skymax that Advanced only incrementally, had limited visibility range, dragged the frame rates to nearly single-digits at times,  and that we were assured was at the outer limits of possible technology, only to have msfs clouds come in and wipe the floor with it?

How long were we assured by certain Gatekeepers that p3d was the Pinnacle of possible Aviation simulation technology, and that the graphics that we were seeing in games were impossible in a large-scale world?

Until msfs showed up to wipe the floor with that as well?

In my mind it's always been the same thing. Stagnation, complacency, and Status Quo. After all, where else did we, as simmers, have to go?

Now thank God, no matter how painful, the status quo is broken, history has resumed, and the sleepy Mom and Pop stores will need to figure out what they're going to do about that Walmart that just moved in.

Warning! Some of that was hyperbole, but just as some people say that after two months they're very frustrated with msfs, after several decades I'm very frustrated with some of our Legacy Sims.