26 minutes ago, marsman2020 said:

I get it al - all the hardcore flight sim fans are absolutely terrified that if there is widespread criticism of MSFS, it might impact its sales, and if it gets killed off like Flight!, it might be another 10 or 20 years before anyone tries this stuff again.

Might as well put a "no criticism allowed" banner up here on AVSIM, where you can all post about how excited you are about the next $300 3rd party add on to fix the things that should have just worked in the simulator to begin with.

And why are you so keen to see it fail?

I would think you would want the developers to succeed so that the product would be patched to your approval.  But no, you seem to take potshots at every opportunity and attack those who are actively encouraging continued development and improvement.

Why is that?

I can't help but to question your motives because your continued actions appear go way beyond simple criticism or mere dissatisfaction. It's almost like you want it to fail so you can say, "See I told you so, it's just like Flight." 

 

Edited October 17, 20205 yr by wthomas33065

41 minutes ago, marsman2020 said:

I get it al - all the hardcore flight sim fans are absolutely terrified that if there is widespread criticism of MSFS, it might impact its sales, and if it gets killed off like Flight!, it might be another 10 or 20 years before anyone tries this stuff again.

And yet you seem surprised when we get annoyed that people post utter BS couched as "criticism." 

The conclusion is either that you're trying to make that happen, or that you're just trying to annoy people.

Either way, it's obnoxious and you should stop. Legitimate criticism is fine. Pushing the utterly asinine implication that MSFS is somehow worse than a sim released in the early 80's is not.

 

 

Edited October 17, 20205 yr by eslader

3 hours ago, eslader said:

This does differ from the old days when you would get a complete, fully tested product the day you bought it. But those were the days when products fit on a floppy or two, and pushing updates to consumers was difficult and impractical. Like you, I'd love to return to the days when nearly bug-free and feature complete software was available on day 1, but it's not going to happen. 

So at one extreme you get Star Citizen that may actually never come out ever versus the classic example of "released too early", No Man's  Sky, though in the flight sim world Il2 Cliffs of Dover is also in the "to early" basket.

5 minutes ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

So at one extreme you get Star Citizen that may actually never come out ever versus the classic example of "released too early", No Man's  Sky, though in the flight sim world Il2 Cliffs of Dover is also in the "to early" basket.

Speaking of Star Citizen, before Chris Roberts did the whole Star Citizen debacle, he had his own company, Digital Anvil, that was developing a product called Freelancer.

A ton of promises were made about a great open world and all the wonderful features Freelancer would have.

Years dragged on.

The game was released, but  not including a lot of the wonderful content that was promised.  Microsoft (who had bought Digital Anvil) got it to a "minimum viable product" state, shoved it out the door, patched it twice, and gave up.

Guess who is credited as the Lead Designer of Freelancer.

Edited October 17, 20205 yr by marsman2020

1 hour ago, marsman2020 said:

I get it al - all the hardcore flight sim fans are absolutely terrified that if there is widespread criticism of MSFS, it might impact its sales, and if it gets killed off like Flight!, it might be another 10 or 20 years before anyone tries this stuff again.

Might as well put a "no criticism allowed" banner up here on AVSIM, where you can all post about how excited you are about the next $300 3rd party add on to fix the things that should have just worked in the simulator to begin with.

MSFS gets plenty of criticism and sometimes rightly so, but it's early days, if it has multiple bugs and limitations. Maybe things don't improve after 1-2 years after it's release, then MS would deserve everything it gets, even with all it's problems I still prefer MSFS than even the more mature, currently more complete simulators, going forward I'm sure that MSFS will be the most complete flight sim on the market.

25 minutes ago, marsman2020 said:

Speaking of Star Citizen, before Chris Roberts did the whole Star Citizen debacle, he had his own company, Digital Anvil, that was developing a product called Freelancer.

A ton of promises were made about a great open world and all the wonderful features Freelancer would have.

Years dragged on.

The game was released, but  not including a lot of the wonderful content that was promised.  Microsoft (who had bought Digital Anvil) got it to a "minimum viable product" state, shoved it out the door, patched it twice, and gave up.

Guess who is credited as the Lead Designer of Freelancer.

Good grief! Did some of these people kick your dog? 😲

3 minutes ago, eaim said:

 MSFS will be the most complete flight sim on the market.

Agree, if study level aircraft successfully reach this platform, then MSFS will be the most complete flight sim on the market. This is primarily due to the incorporation of the new scenery technology right out of the box. I believe the days of buying multiple addon scenery packages (as I have done in the past) will diminish with time if MSFS pulls off the complete package with impressive aircraft from top to bottom, especially for those of us continually exploring new airports worldwide. 

48 minutes ago, marsman2020 said:

Speaking of Star Citizen, before Chris Roberts did the whole Star Citizen debacle, he had his own company, Digital Anvil, that was developing a product called Freelancer.

A ton of promises were made about a great open world and all the wonderful features Freelancer would have.

Years dragged on.

The game was released, but  not including a lot of the wonderful content that was promised.  Microsoft (who had bought Digital Anvil) got it to a "minimum viable product" state, shoved it out the door, patched it twice, and gave up.

Guess who is credited as the Lead Designer of Freelancer.

So now it makes sense.  You have a beef with Jorg Neumann and we all get to witness you play out your personal vendetta against him.

At least you've stopped pretending to be merely a dissatisfied customer.  Well at least now we know which file we should store your future opinions regarding this product.  The round one.

Edited October 17, 20205 yr by wthomas33065

6 minutes ago, wthomas33065 said:

At least you've stopped pretending to be merely a dissatisfied customer. 

It's not really anything personal.  I'm just a 2x dissatisfied customer, I wasn't satisfied with my purchase of Freelancer either.  Nor with my purchase of Star Citizen, although I purchased when the stated goals of the project were much more moderate and achievable.

In general, there have been several releases of software - single player games and MMOs  - where I've been burned by people making lofty claims about what the software will do and then not delivering.  So I'm skeptical of the claims being made now - since the product clearly was released 6 to 9 months before it was done, doesn't live up to the marketing, and in two months since launch they have made little progress beyond fixing the installer, adding a lot of new bugs, and then fixing those new bugs.

I have stayed out if this until now...

One overriding factor is intent. Stated goals are good to have..intent on delivery is another matter.. situations change, goals change based on reception, profit margins, changes of leadership etc.. nothing is an absolute gaurantee.

I have a consumer's faith MSFS 2020 will continue to improve..for a while at least..enough so i can fly my big iron and get the correct responses,...

Edited October 17, 20205 yr by ray hughes

1 minute ago, ray hughes said:One overriding factor is intent. Stated goals are good to have..intent on delivery is another matter.. situations change, goals change based on reception, profit margins, changes of leadership etc.. nothing is an absolute gaurantee.

I have a consumer's faith MSFS 2020 will continue to improve..for a while at least..enough so i can fly my bug iron and get the correct responses,...

Very, very true. Especially in this day and age. I also have consumer faith with a positive outlook. I am enjoying this sim with the level of enjoyment I remember from my early days with MSFS 5.1!

2 hours ago, Doering said:

Very, very true. Especially in this day and age. I also have consumer faith with a positive outlook. I am enjoying this sim with the level of enjoyment I remember from my early days with MSFS 5.1!

This latest update has seemed to fix a lot of the ctds I was getting

I’ve had no ctds this week;  about 30 hours in game. Ive had the Garmen display in the caravan freeze once (made for an exciting approach) and the missing RNAV & ILS approaches in the database is still annoying but ultimately I’m having a blast with the game and I’m confident the game will get better & better with each update

I’ve traced  a lot of my ctds to me just pushing my hardware too far

my biggest culprits are and still are Volumetric clouds on Ultra and turning up the render scaling too high.  I think this is pointing to my 1080ti saying ‘screw you I don’t want to work that hard’

5 hours ago, marsman2020 said:

$300 3rd party add on to fix the things that should have just worked in the simulator to begin with.

With this logic FSX 737 and 747 should have been a fully working PMDG like aircraft . 
 

quick question how much according to you a home flight simulator should be priced at with every single aircraft out the box being represented at 100% . ??? 

4 hours ago, wthomas33065 said:

So now it makes sense.  You have a beef with Jorg Neumann and we all get to witness you play out your personal vendetta against him.

At least you've stopped pretending to be merely a dissatisfied customer.  Well at least now we know which file we should store your future opinions regarding this product.  The round one.

He’s also pretty alone in hating on Freelancer... I have some fond memories of that game, wish I could find my game disk.  8.5 on Metacritic, with an over 90 percent user score, and recognized as one of the best space games of all time, hardly the rushed failure he’s making it out to be.

4 hours ago, marsman2020 said:

Nor with my purchase of Star Citizen, although I purchased when the stated goals of the project were much more moderate and achievable.

I mean. Assuming you're being genuine in all of this, you might want to sit down and think about your thought processes leading up to purchases.

I was a huge Chris Roberts fan. Had every version of Wing Commander. And Privateer 1 / 2? Brilliant. I played the heck out of those (even though they weren't original - they were obviously based on the much older and also excellent Space Rogue). So when I saw he was developing a new game I got excited. Then I read the details and it was bloody obvious right from the get-go that it would take more than one miracle for that idea to come to fruition. Even a good-case scenario would have been a game that was a worse let-down than Spore. And I was right. The guy's become the Bernie Madoff of video games. He's taken a ton of money in and even if he had the best of intentions in the beginning, is I think now realizing that there's no way on Earth he's ever gonna be able to deliver what he promised, but he's already spent the money so he's stuck. And so are his customers.

I also went into MSFS with my eyes open. I knew bloody well the thing wasn't going to be perfect out of the box. No MSFS in history ever has been. I knew it would probably be *years* before the stuff I really like - study or near-study level jets of all sizes - became available for it. But I also knew that if no one bought the stupid thing in the beginning, none of that would ever happen, and at $60, heck, it's worth the risk. Worst case scenario, if enough people buy the sim, hardware manufacturers would realize that there's a market for flight sim stuff, and maybe we'll get out of the doldrums where your choice was garbage Saitek quality or needing a mortgage to get something better because there was no in-between. That, btw, seems to be playing out nicely.

In short, stop expecting the "awesomest thing ever all the time" and you'll also stop being so disappointed that you spam forums with, honestly, inane complaints like the flight model in a 1980's sim was better.

 

Edited October 18, 20205 yr by eslader