My view on MSFS now, 2 months after release

[Will Fly For Cheese 1,710]

Where the hell do this pair think they're going?

Over the top or what.

[GSalden 4,657]

2 hours ago, OSM said:

😄😄😄

Looks like a beehive 🐝

[canuk_22 24]

2 hours ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

I had a friend with an expensive Italian made sports car, I will not name the brand.

When asked if he would recommend it his reply was "It sort of depends who is asking, it is the most amazing thing I have ever driven, when it is going."

I knew someone like that with an expensive German car, a doctor, as a service manager when I would attempt to explain the high cost of the invoice for the repairs, he would say to me "keys please I must go".  When you have money, you don't care.

[RichUK 474]

15 hours ago, wthomas33065 said:

But when someone in an MSFS forum or hijacks a post to stir the pot it's annoying.  

That is a lot of the problem here. Some folk (we all know who they are) keep posting in the MSFS forum about how great P3D is doing (it really isn't all that). They do this repeatedly and it derails the thread and causes emotions to boil over. If the MSFS forum could just be used to talk about MSFS then we could just deal with the details and not play into ulterior motives and trolling etc. 

[scotchegg 4,186]

6 hours ago, GSalden said:

Regarding other forums here at Avsim : namecalling and attacking persons on their opinion is far from the level of what it is here. 

We just have to respect eachother , discussing without overreacting.

Here is a selection of quotes from just one thread currently on the front page of the P3D forum which you have participated in. I sense a double standard.

“Dont let Simbol fool you”

”Its almost like there's a little bit of a power trip/ego/post count thing going on....”

“I have no idea what that post was all about...”

“Martyson is the most useless and annoying poster I have seen anywhere on the internet. He just posts garbage replies to user questions that don’t even make any sense, and just end up derailing threads. Seriously, his reading comprehension skills are at toddler-level.”

“I feel irritated too about all these people (Jorgen is not alone) defending LMs behavior.”

“C'mon Ray you're better than this”

“I didn't want to name them but yeah -  I find it annoying as hell. The posts offer little to no technical advice and serve no purpose other an increasing post count.”

”You should go join the other big-brained geniuses on the LM forums.”

[wthomas33065 994]

9 hours ago, marsman2020 said:

Why do people seem to think that we aren't entitled to a working product for our money?

And if the developers were not releasing regular updates and had a dashboard displaying reported issues and their progress, then I might side with you.

But that’s not happening,  The developer is providing weekly updates and every developer update that gets posted is followed by some snide remark insulting their character.

When they confessed that they had a typo in the release notes regarding “press any key” I seem to remember that some implied they were attempting a cover up despite the fact that the press any key issue has always been slated for update 5 in the timeline.

 MSFS was available to you as a try before you buy prospect via Game Pass.  You failed to avail yourself of that precaution.  You also failed to ask for a refund.  So excuse me if my sympathy for your partially self inflicted damage is limited.

You have a right to be frustrated, to expect value for dollar.  But your rights end when you accuse others of unethical behavior with no evidence or make conspiracy fueled predictions that are completely opposite reality.

Edited October 17, 2020 by wthomas33065

[RichUK 474]

16 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Any negative thread for MSFS and the "Proud Boys" come to town

Cheers, Rob.

That really isn't appropriate.

[GSalden 4,657]

1 hour ago, scotchegg said:

Here is a selection of quotes from just one thread currently on the front page of the P3D forum which you have participated in. I sense a double standard.

“Dont let Simbol fool you”

”Its almost like there's a little bit of a power trip/ego/post count thing going on....”

“I have no idea what that post was all about...”

“Martyson is the most useless and annoying poster I have seen anywhere on the internet. He just posts garbage replies to user questions that don’t even make any sense, and just end up derailing threads. Seriously, his reading comprehension skills are at toddler-level.”

“I feel irritated too about all these people (Jorgen is not alone) defending LMs behavior.”

“C'mon Ray you're better than this”

“I didn't want to name them but yeah -  I find it annoying as hell. The posts offer little to no technical advice and serve no purpose other an increasing post count.”

”You should go join the other big-brained geniuses on the LM forums.”

What do you want to accomplish by posting this ?

Like Peter you are searching, copying, pasting from another sim into the MSFS sim.

Do you guys really miss other sims that much ...? Spending your time searching and searching and copying and pasting ..

Useless..

[HiFlyer 9,360]

35 minutes ago, GSalden said:

Spending your time searching and searching and copying and pasting ..

Useless..

You don't have to search very long to find snow in a blizzard....

Edited October 17, 2020 by HiFlyer

[wthomas33065 994]

1 hour ago, RICHUK said:

That really isn't appropriate.

Especially when you consider that comment is coming from the CEO of a software company that publishes addons for P3D.

[RichUK 474]

9 minutes ago, wthomas33065 said:

Especially when you consider that comment is coming from the CEO of a software company that publishes addons for P3D.

And an ex-moderator of this very site.

[Noel 4,503]

16 hours ago, ShawnG said:

P3d is not FAA certified on its own as a piece of software.  That requires specific hardware in conjunction with the software to achieve.  

There you go.  And this is really the crux of the ongoing debate of sim v game:  if YOU'RE using P3D w/o the full on hardware as an FAA registered simulator, on your desktop PC,  it's ultimately being used in game mode.   Sure, after a decade or more the SDK allows for more complexity in supported aircraft, but that becomes the primary difference between P3D and MSFS as far as the sim v game argument goes, pretty much.  Develop the SDK to the point socalled study-level planes work perfectly, and really P3D and MSFS become largely identical vis a vis the whole sim v game debate.  I think those who feel the strong need to be identified as a simmer instead of a gamer, it's 99% ego-based more than anything.

[OSM 683]

From developers point of view - it is much easier and cheaper to make sophisticated Simulator for home PC than make a successful PC Game with a millions of users. This is like make a training video or very good Hollywood movie. Currently MS/Asobo try to use all "Hollywood power" to make "training video" and this is definitely the new approach!

[eslader 1,784]

11 hours ago, marsman2020 said:

Why do people seem to think that we aren't entitled to a working product for our money?

Your definition of working, thus far, includes a flight sim released during the Reagan administration when people still thought Pacman was groundbreaking and which did not have anything approaching a realistic flight model. By your own reasoning, the current sim blows your threshold for "working" out of the water, so you should stop complaining.

In seriousness, we absolutely do think we are entitled to a working product for our money, but we also have adult-level definitions for the word "working." We do not expect a Level-D experience for $60. We also understand that the unfortunate reality of the software industry today is that products, not just flight simulators, and not even just games, are released in an incomplete state and are patched for months or years to improve them. This does differ from the old days when you would get a complete, fully tested product the day you bought it. But those were the days when products fit on a floppy or two, and pushing updates to consumers was difficult and impractical. Like you, I'd love to return to the days when nearly bug-free and feature complete software was available on day 1, but it's not going to happen. And in some cases, that's even a good thing, because in the old days if bugs *were* in the release, you were probably stuck with them. 

If you don't like the realities of the modern software industry, don't buy software until a few years after release when hopefully most of the bugs have been fixed and the features have been completed. But getting on forums and whining about what has become common practice and is not going to go away as though it's some uniquely terrible thing that Asobo is doing to us is not only unhelpful, but it sounds like the petulant rantings of a child and litters the forum with trash that one has to wade through in order to find something worth discussing.

 

 

[marsman2020 1,310]

2 hours ago, eslader said:

Your definition of working, thus far, includes a flight sim released during the Reagan administration when people still thought Pacman was groundbreaking and which did not have anything approaching a realistic flight model. By your own reasoning, the current sim blows your threshold for "working" out of the water, so you should stop complaining.

In seriousness, we absolutely do think we are entitled to a working product for our money, but we also have adult-level definitions for the word "working." We do not expect a Level-D experience for $60. We also understand that the unfortunate reality of the software industry today is that products, not just flight simulators, and not even just games, are released in an incomplete state and are patched for months or years to improve them. This does differ from the old days when you would get a complete, fully tested product the day you bought it. But those were the days when products fit on a floppy or two, and pushing updates to consumers was difficult and impractical. Like you, I'd love to return to the days when nearly bug-free and feature complete software was available on day 1, but it's not going to happen. And in some cases, that's even a good thing, because in the old days if bugs *were* in the release, you were probably stuck with them. 

If you don't like the realities of the modern software industry, don't buy software until a few years after release when hopefully most of the bugs have been fixed and the features have been completed. But getting on forums and whining about what has become common practice and is not going to go away as though it's some uniquely terrible thing that Asobo is doing to us is not only unhelpful, but it sounds like the petulant rantings of a child and litters the forum with trash that one has to wade through in order to find something worth discussing.

I get it al - all the hardcore flight sim fans are absolutely terrified that if there is widespread criticism of MSFS, it might impact its sales, and if it gets killed off like Flight!, it might be another 10 or 20 years before anyone tries this stuff again.

Might as well put a "no criticism allowed" banner up here on AVSIM, where you can all post about how excited you are about the next $300 3rd party add on to fix the things that should have just worked in the simulator to begin with.