Quite sad but possible explanation of poor Asobo's quality

[harrry 322]

It was not the code which should have been reused but some of the logic and models.  They did have correct modeling of aircraft signs of the correct types for location.  They had accurate and appropriate models nd logic for the many different types of approach lighting and glidepath indications.   They had correct or close to it naming of runways and taxiways.  They had good contrail formations in the right conditions.  They had a map which gave airport layout and frequencies (out of date but it was not the code that had to be transferred but the need for such data.

All of these have been strongly requested in the forums along with many other features present in the old sim but not correct in the new.

Yes the old was out of date and did not use modern coding practices.  It was not needed to reuse the code and I agree reuse of code may not have been the best way. to go.

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by harrry

[Dominique_K 10,152]

17 minutes ago, harrry said:

It was not the code which should have been reused but some of the logic and models. 

 

Looking only at recycling (or not) the old code was indeed not enough. Asobo should have gather and listen to a group of simmers before starting the project. The feeling is that they were so keen to bring a new breath to the sim that they forgot that not everything was obsolete in the extant products, I wonder how many of their programmers had played P3D or XP before.

Anyway, the shot has been fired, this is history. Now it is up to us to put pressure on the team to get a better sim. Be happy with what we have does not preclude in any way to voice our concerns. 

[Wobbie 938]

6 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

Looking only at recycling (or not) the old code was indeed not enough. Asobo should have gather and listen to a group of simmers before starting the project. The feeling is that they were so keen to bring a new breath to the sim that they forgot that not everything was obsolete in the extant products, I wonder how many of their programmers had played P3D or XP before.

Anyway, the shot has been fired, this is history. Now it is up to us to put pressure on the team to get a better sim. Be happy with what we have does not preclude in any way to voice our concerns. 

Seriously Dominique? Asobo gathering and listening to a group of simmers/gamers?

You do realise that there would have been such a flaming war on who gets selected & why? Remember, it's an entertainment product from a gaming studio, & it's irrelevant if any of them 'played' any sim.

As, I'm sure you know, it started as a technology demonstration for Asobo's technology, no more, no less. 

A bit arrogant to have gamers rallying up to put pressure on them? As a well established gaming studio, I'm sure they have plans afoot to sort themselves out.

[jcomm 6,020]

There's always War Thunder as an alternative - at least for me 🙂

I usually get more joy out of it than out of any other sim...

But I really want to believe ASOBO is really not giving up on continued development and adding important features.

[Moria15 950]

1 hour ago, Dominique_K said:

Looking only at recycling (or not) the old code was indeed not enough. Asobo should have gather and listen to a group of simmers before starting the project. The feeling is that they were so keen to bring a new breath to the sim that they forgot that not everything was obsolete in the extant products, I wonder how many of their programmers had played P3D or XP before.

Anyway, the shot has been fired, this is history. Now it is up to us to put pressure on the team to get a better sim. Be happy with what we have does not preclude in any way to voice our concerns. 

I am confused why people think they re-used the code, or recycled it when MSFS2020 is a brand new engine and cannot use the code developed for the origional FSX.   It's pretty basic that any new engine requires the code written to work with that engine.

Recycling the code would be like trying to use Unreal Engine Code in Unity Engine..  it's not going to happen even if the origional code was written in .dll's for import purposes or even in the same language it is still going to have to be re-written to use the new engine... it's also not going to happen for a whole new generation of Graphics etc, and especially with the new streaming and connectivity aspects.

Now.. logic and methodology possibly  but not code re-use.

As to gather and listening to a group of simmers...  which ones?   Determining which ones would have taken longer than getting the project written to this stage because quite frankly, whilst simmers know what they want individually..  the ability for simmers to operate from a consensus is known to be impossible.

Graham

.

 

[Dominique_K 10,152]

19 minutes ago, Moria15 said:

I am confused why people t 

 

Asobo said that early on they started from the FSX code. Thats it. 

Selecting simmers : anybody familiar with flight simulation can draw a list of a score of serious and reasonable simmers to form a focus group.   "operate' or "reach consensus" ? Nope, just for Asobo to listen and take what they thought useful. Many mistakes would have been avoided. 

But again this is history. 

[Wobbie 938]

35 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

Asobo said that early on they started from the FSX code. Thats it. 

Selecting simmers : anybody familiar with flight simulation can draw a list of a score of serious and reasonable simmers to form a focus group.   "operate' or "reach consensus" ? Nope, just for Asobo to listen and take what they thought useful. Many mistakes would have been avoided. 

But again this is history. 

That's the thing.. what defines a so-called serious simmer? Or who? Avsimmers? Seriously?? There are many serious simmers that stay away from Avsim. 

Only so-called 'study level' simmers? I think not.. (that's a fancy name for complex aircraft to justify pricing). There are serious so-called simmers that dont do PMDG either. Would a 'so-called' simmer have to reveal his PC & hardware to be selected? I dont think so.

In any case, we had thousands of 'serious' simmers in all the different beta releases anyway, so there was your focus group. 

Obviously Asobo has a good look at the core code, it's impossible to build a sim from the basement up, starting from scratch. However, obviously MSFS is vastly different from anything previously done, flight models, scenery, etc., so that type of conversation is irrelevant What did you expect, anyway! 

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

1 hour ago, Wobbie said:

it's impossible to build a sim from the basement up, starting from scratch.

Not really, otherwise we wouldn’t have a sim to begin with 😜

[Amon1973 1,428]

On 11/2/2020 at 1:36 PM, wim123 said:

i think the majority of customers are quite happy with the product.

its the unhappy ones that come to the forums and complain, so these forums are not at all mirroring the customers views.

its mainly the mentality of some gamers thats the issue.

I'm certainly more happy with MSFS than not. Yes it has more major issues than the other older more established FS, but in 75% of the sim it's truly a next generation Sim. Within 1-2 years we'll wonder what all the fuss was about. All new sims go through these growing pains, with that said, there must be a reason that 99% of the time I want to fly a flight sim I fire up MSFS.

[Moria15 950]

6 hours ago, Dominique_K said:

Asobo said that early on they started from the FSX code. Thats it. 

Selecting simmers : anybody familiar with flight simulation can draw a list of a score of serious and reasonable simmers to form a focus group.   "operate' or "reach consensus" ? Nope, just for Asobo to listen and take what they thought useful. Many mistakes would have been avoided. 

But again this is history. 

Starting from the FSX code is NOT the same as taking the FSX code and using it to build MSFS2020 code by any stretch of the imagination.

As to selecting simmers....   please god no...  I prefer the route they took of using real pilots with real flying experience.   The last thing I would want is for people who have grown up on the assumption that FSX, Prep3d or Xplane are actually flight sims and to bring that into MSFS2020.  There are many things in FSX/Prep/Xplane that are just as wrong that people have got used to and assume they are correct, but that is not always the case...  A simmer is NOT a pilot.. not matter how accurate the plane is modelled, or how accurate the sim is modelled, or even how accurate the systems are modelled...   and a flight sim will NEVER EVER represent true flying, not even if you have a 6 axis bouncy chair attached to it...   all the subtle things that your brain takes as input when actually in an aircraft  such as wind sounds, smells, subtle judders and shakes...   all the things that are almost sixth sense stuff will never be recreatable in a sim,  however if it gets as close as it can to reality..  not to FSX/Prep3d or Xplane..  as confirmed by real pilots.. then i think it will truly be the next gen, even though it will still lack all the "sixth-sense" stuff of real flying.

We have seen this in the night-light thread..   completely opposite views and frankly, the only people I would want giving advise to Asobo about this are people that regularly see the real world from altitude.. both high and low...  Anyone else is just pushing their favorite, possibly wrong opinion, on everyone else based on ow their monitor is set-up and what they want to see rather than what is accurate.

If all of this means that certain "hard core" simmers have to do things differently in MSFS2020 is fine by me, but I don't want this sim being developed by those same "hard core" simmers who believe they are pilots and adding their existing policies and procedures from other flight sims into this one.

Graham

Edited November 4, 2020 by Moria15

[RXP 2,338]

6 hours ago, Moria15 said:

why people think they re-used the code, or recycled it when MSFS2020 is a brand new engine and cannot use the code developed for the origional FSX.   It's pretty basic that any new engine requires the code written to work with that engine.

Because besides thinking they did, some facts are nonetheless quite intriguing:

 

[Wobbie 938]

Well said, Graham. Perfectly put.

Gamerz/simmerz cannot even agree on the name of the sim. lol.

A so-called 'study level' gamer does not a pilot make!

[Moria15 950]

5 minutes ago, RXP said:

Because besides thinking they did, some facts are nonetheless quite intriguing:

 

 

And your point is  people can't click in the right place in either sim is just as valid a supposition, especially since one of the things that underwent a complete overhall is how gauges and instruments are modded...  if you bring into MSFS2020 a gauge or control from FSX it simply does not work in 99% of cases.. it has to be re-written under the new rules..  so your prime example is one that just cannot be valid.

Graham

Edited November 4, 2020 by Moria15

[Bigbluss 304]

I'm a software engineer on a dev team of about 20, in London. We've been absolutely fine working fully remotely. If anything - more productive than ever. Between VSCode shared sessions, Slack, Hangouts, Jira etc there's absolutely no reason software can't be worked on to an incredibly high standard during quarantine. Many friends in the industry are saying the same - if anything, productivity and focus has improved outside of office life. Certainly no excuse here.

Edited November 4, 2020 by Bigbluss

[Wobbie 938]

Just now, Bigbluss said:

I'm a software engineer on a dev team of about 20, in London. We've been absolutely fine working fully remotely. If anything - more productive than ever. Between VSCode shared sessions, Slack, Hangouts, Jira etc there's absolutely no reason software can't be worked on to an incredibly high standard during coding. Many friends in the industry are saying the same - if anything, productivity and focus has improved outside of office life. Certainly no excuse here.

No doubt, but the excuses are coming from Avsimmers!