41 minutes ago, Moria15 said:

Starting from the FSX code is NOT the same as taking the FSX code and using it to build MSFS2020 code by any stretch of the imagination.

As to selecting simmers....   please god no...  I prefer the route they took of using real pilots with real flying experience.   The last thing I would want is for people who have grown up on the assumption that FSX, Prep3d or Xplane are actually flight sims and to bring that into MSFS2020.  There are many things in FSX/Prep/Xplane that are just as wrong that people have got used to and assume they are correct, but that is not always the case...  A simmer is NOT a pilot.. not matter how accurate the plane is modelled, or how accurate the sim is modelled, or even how accurate the systems are modelled...   and a flight sim will NEVER EVER represent true flying, not even if you have a 6 axis bouncy chair attached to it...   all the subtle things that your brain takes as input when actually in an aircraft  such as wind sounds, smells, subtle judders and shakes...   all the things that are almost sixth sense stuff will never be recreatable in a sim,  however if it gets as close as it can to reality..  not to FSX/Prep3d or Xplane..  as confirmed by real pilots.. then i think it will truly be the next gen, even though it will still lack all the "sixth-sense" stuff of real flying.

We have seen this in the night-light thread..   completely opposite views and frankly, the only people I would want giving advise to Asobo about this are people that regularly see the real world from altitude.. both high and low...  Anyone else is just pushing their favorite, possibly wrong opinion, on everyone else based on ow their monitor is set-up and what they want to see rather than what is accurate.

If all of this means that certain "hard core" simmers have to do things differently in MSFS2020 is fine by me, but I don't want this sim being developed by those same "hard core" simmers who believe they are pilots and adding their existing policies and procedures from other flight sims into this one.

Graham

 

The condescending tone in this post is palpable and, therefore, renders the argument less persuasive or effective. At the end of the day, MFS is  not  a RL aircraft. Thus, it must lend itself to the constraints, demands & characteristics of the medium and to the unique qualities of  virtual  flying.

 

(PP 21+ years;

MFS 35+ years)

Edited November 4, 20205 yr by RustyFlyer

10 minutes ago, Moria15 said:

And your point is  people can't click in the right place in either sim is just as valid a supposition,

I might have wrongly expressed myself because my point was certainly not you, or anyone, drawing such conclusions out of it. I understand this is something some of you might not be aware of but to keep it simple:

Flight Simulator has an accelerator logic whereby whenever you continuously depress a knob, it will turn with an increasing velocity from 1deg/click during a certain time to 10deg/click afterward. The "good" way to do this is to separately accelerate each input individually. However they have implemented this 'logic' globally, which means whenever there is a repeating event (be it user triggered or programmatically triggered), any other input event gets accelerated too. Therefore if you have any hardware device continuously sending an input, any manipulator will get accelerated for the same reasons. This is a known bug in FSX and this is the same bug in FS2020. This is no longer a bug in P3D (as far as I remember) and I believe they solved this bug in FSX-SE too.

Old timers flying nearly all FS versions for decades, let alone those who are developing add-ons for decades, have a knowledge of how these things evolve from version to version and can discern sometimes what is new and what is not. You shall believe some of these people knowing.

Edited November 4, 20205 yr by RXP

2 hours ago, RustyFlyer said:

 

The condescending tone in this post is palpable and, therefore, renders the argument less persuasive or effective. At the end of the day, MFS is  not  a RL aircraft. Thus, it must lend itself to the constraints, demands & characteristics of the medium and to the unique qualities of  virtual  flying.

 

(PP 21+ years;

MFS 35+ years)

Actually not condescending, but quite factual. Not quite sure what RL stands for.. 

At the end of the day MSFS IS an entertainment product,  to be released, eventually, on XBox. 

I'm taking it for granted that PP stands for Pupil or Private Pilot & MFS stands for MSFS? 

The real constraints are that MSFS is a game that simulates a simulator, on thousands of different & varied hardware configurations. It's no wonder that it is not quite optimised.

And, as I previously said, there were thousands involved with the pre-release beta, all, I'm sure, a combination of gamers, hobbyísts, serious simmers et al.

Anyhow..

(VPPL+ 10 years

FS1 40 years

MSFS+ 32 years

FGear+ 6 years

MS Windows user+ 32 years

MS Office+ 25 years)

21 minutes ago, Wobbie said:

Actually not condescending, but quite factual. Not quite sure what RL stands for.. 

 

RL = Real Life 

1 minute ago, Richard Sennett said:

RL = Real Life 

THNX = Thanks

Quote

We have seen this in the night-light thread..   completely opposite views and frankly, the only people I would want giving advise to Asobo about this are people that regularly see the real world from altitude.. both high and low... 

Most people who have flown as a passenger on a plane too qualify for that...

And you could be a complete land lubber never flown in your life to note that roads out in the countryside or across remote moorland etc., don't tend to have any form of street lighting.

LOL,.. Maybe the RC guys should have got involved.. Not forgetting the Red Bull Paper Wings Flyers.. All just as qualified?

Don't forget everyone visiting the Eiffel Tower! There is no better to see Paris by Night ! (Paris by Night street lights, not the other... 🙂)

Instead of blaming Covid-19 I thought the OP was going to say that the reason was nobody at Aboso has any real world flight experience and has no idea how ATC and IFR are supposed to function!

 

It would be a better excuse!

25 minutes ago, Elvensmith said:

Most people who have flown as a passenger on a plane too qualify for that...

And you could be a complete land lubber never flown in your life to note that roads out in the countryside or across remote moorland etc., don't tend to have any form of street lighting.

Agreed!

 

It looks ridiculous now!

4 hours ago, Wobbie said:

Actually not condescending, but quite factual. Not quite sure what RL stands for.. 

At the end of the day MSFS IS an entertainment product,  to be released, eventually, on XBox. 

I'm taking it for granted that PP stands for Pupil or Private Pilot & MFS stands for MSFS? 

The real constraints are that MSFS is a game that simulates a simulator, on thousands of different & varied hardware configurations. It's no wonder that it is not quite optimised.

And, as I previously said, there were thousands involved with the pre-release beta, all, I'm sure, a combination of gamers, hobbyísts, serious simmers et al.

Anyhow..

(VPPL+ 10 years

FS1 40 years

MSFS+ 32 years

FGear+ 6 years

MS Windows user+ 32 years

MS Office+ 25 years)

Exactly. I regret that you did not understand my comment. Indeed, MFS (a ubiquitous abbreviation for Microsoft Flight Simulator in hundreds, if not thousands, of posts in this forum and others) is, as I indicated, not an aircraft. MFS is a virtual environment. Call it entertainment, call it a game, call it a simulator, call it a hamburger if you wish, these descriptions all fall under the umbrella of 'virtual flying'.

In any event I was not responding to you; I was responding to Moria's comment where his position is that, essentially, if the MFS platform does not precisely mimmic RL/RW (real life/real world) flying in all ways, then it is not truly a representative reflection of an aviation experience. My point was simply that, as an objective participant, possessing the bona fides to render comment (hence the abbreviations: PP = private pilot (an abbreviation used by many... take a look), long-term flight-sim user), MFS is indeed representative of flying from a variety of perspectives. I meant to say no more, no less and nothing other.

 

PP/SEP 2000

MFS 2.0 - 1985 (Microsoft is one word, not two, hence MFS vs. MSFS. How about MRSTFSMTR- there, is that better?).............. 

MS DOS 3.0 - 1985.................

RL participant, School of Hard Knocks - Jurassic Period lol (laugh out loud / online, in case you are equally unfamiliar with that ubiquitous abbr. 😉 )........

 

Edited November 5, 20205 yr by RustyFlyer

@RustyFlyer @Wobbie I just hope these are not your best explanation of poor Asobo's quality, otherwise I believe you've both forgotten to also add the number of years you've been members of the Avsim forums?!?

5 hours ago, Wobbie said:

Not quite sure what RL stands for.. 

Seriously?  So I now understand your posts.  How can one measure a simulation against real life if you are not aware of just what RL is.....  I presume it is so one can label it as a game.  Many of us followed the development from its public birth with a different expectation, based on representations.  So of course that same many of us are clamoring to get to get it up and onward to meet those expectations.

35 minutes ago, RXP said:

@RustyFlyer @Wobbie I just hope these are not your best explanation of poor Asobo's quality, otherwise I believe you've both forgotten to also add the number of years you've been members of the Avsim forums?!?

My comment had nothing to do with fathoming the reasons behind either the current state of MFS '20 or Asobo's responsibility therefore. It was simply a response to portions of another comment, made in this thread, having to do with the perceived legitimacy or not of MFS as (at least) partially representative of an "aviation experience".

Let me try to state it one final time: Will one get 100LL on their shoes while performing a preflight (fuel) inspection in MFS? No. Does that render MFS illegitimate as reflective of a form of aviation experience? Also no. In my view, platform anomalies (night-lighting, etc.) aside, MFS is indeed representative of an aviation experience. But what do I know, I am simply a RL PP enjoying MFS in the RW lol. 😉😅👍

3 minutes ago, RustyFlyer said:

But what do I know, I am simply a RL PP enjoying MFS in the RW lol. 😉😅👍

And shaking off the rust in the process....  😏