51 minutes ago, jabloomf1230 said:

Is this the stock LFBO or an add-on? The reason asking is there is a priority to the MSFS scenery library.

One way to check what's happening is to download and install Little NavMap. Then use it offline to compare the MSFS version of the navigation database to the version that uses Navigraph directly. It's a set of options under the Scenery Library item  in the top level menu.

My guess is that the problem is caused by the dimwtted stock MSFS ATC, but it also could be the aircraft itself.

It's stock.  The only thing non-stock is the nav data being Navigraph.

It's probably a stretch to assume the flight planner, ATC, and aircraft MCDU all access the same information in the same way.  But if I can't get the MCDU to offer what the ATC is assigning, then that's a non-starter for me.  And I may be rolling back to the MSFS nav data.

2 hours ago, Midnight Music said:

I have found that using Navigraph and Simbrief together is the best option. You can create your whole flight plan with SIDs and ARRs and ILS approaches, if needed, then import the whole thing into MSFS, ready to go. The MSFS flight planner is not the ideal and forget ATC in MSFS, it is is dubious at best. I use ATC for departures and in flight, but when it comes to approaches, I often cancel IFR and go to flight following and do what is in the correct approaches as per the charts.

Lee

I guess it depends on what you're trying to simulate.  It seems you're putting an emphasis on simulating the flight planning process (dispatcher experience). I'm more interested in simulating a realistic arrival procedure (pilot experience).

Edited November 18, 20205 yr by Virtual-Chris

8 minutes ago, Virtual-Chris said:

I guess it depends on what you're trying to simulate.  It seems you're putting an emphasis on simulating the flight planning process (dispatcher experience). I'm more interested in simulating a realistic arrival procedure (pilot experience).

What's more real than arriving correctly with the correct STAR and all procedures? MSFS ATC will not give you that. That's why I go to the charts for the final leg of my journey.

Lee

1 minute ago, Midnight Music said:

What's more real than arriving correctly with the correct STAR and all procedures? MSFS ATC will not give you that. That's why I go to the charts for the final leg of my journey.

Lee

You can plan your flight completely with predefined runways and approaches - and ignore ATC.  This will result in a realistic flight, but not a realistic experience. And it's actually pretty boring in an airliner.  But my understanding is that this is not how it's done in the real world.  In reality, ATC will assign (or even dispatch will relay during cruise) the active landing runway based on current weather and other factors during flight and you need to adapt and add those into your nav system.  That's what I'm trying to simulate.  It is fairly repeatable and reliable, when I was using the stock MSFS nav data.  While it maybe too early to call it quits on Navigraph, so far, it's not looking good.

9 minutes ago, Virtual-Chris said:

You can plan your flight completely with predefined runways and approaches - and ignore ATC.  This will result in a realistic flight, but not a realistic experience. And it's actually pretty boring in an airliner.  But my understanding is that this is not how it's done in the real world.  In reality, ATC will assign (or even dispatch will relay during cruise) the active landing runway based on current weather and other factors during flight and you need to adapt and add those into your nav system.  That's what I'm trying to simulate.  It is fairly repeatable and reliable, when I was using the stock MSFS nav data.  While it maybe too early to call it quits on Navigraph, so far, it's not looking good.

All true what you say, but MSFS ATC does not do that. It's hit and miss. There are times when I know what the wind and runway use at a particular airport is, but MSFS ATC gives you a completely different unrealistic approach and assigns an incorrect runway. I can't figure out why sometimes MSFS ATC is right on and other times it is completely off...baffling. Navigraph does not provide ATC, it is merely a navigational aid program. For instance, it has added a lot of navaids to MSFS that are missing. I find that valuable. ATC is just one of the many frustrations that exist in this sim at the moment. I am sure they will get it straightened out eventually, I hope!

Lee

I’ve had the best luck using Navigraph + Sim Brief + Pilot2ATC....things don’t always align, but it’s given me the most realistic experience so far.

17 minutes ago, nyfirefly11 said:

I’ve had the best luck using Navigraph + Sim Brief + Pilot2ATC....things don’t always align, but it’s given me the most realistic experience so far.

Yeah, I may have to try Pilot2ATC... but now its getting a little expensive to just get MSFS to simulate a real flight.  Sad.

Ps. with Pilot2ATC can you set it so the ATC only assigns RNAV or ILS approaches?  Another short-coming of MSFS ATC is that sometimes they will assign a VOR approach which is nonsense for a modern airliner.

Edited November 19, 20205 yr by Virtual-Chris

5 hours ago, Virtual-Chris said:

 While it maybe too early to call it quits on Navigraph, so far, it's not looking good.

You got the wrong end of the stick here. Navigraph is not the problem - the built-in ATC is. And that's what you should call it quits on.

Trust me, I spent 45+ years in ATC and MSFS ATC is as far from realistic as you can get.

5 hours ago, Virtual-Chris said:

Yeah, I may have to try Pilot2ATC... but now its getting a little expensive to just get MSFS to simulate a real flight.  Sad.

Ps. with Pilot2ATC can you set it so the ATC only assigns RNAV or ILS approaches?  Another short-coming of MSFS ATC is that sometimes they will assign a VOR approach which is nonsense for a modern airliner.

As far as I use, Pilot2atc gives you what you planned. Rarely atc alters to upwinds or downwinds and again brings you to the same approach. It is really most realistic software and you can try it free from their website and see if it suits you.

Happy flying...

So I tried LFML to LFBO again tonight with the Navigraph data and without (default MSFS nav data).  Same exact flight plan both times where I leave the runway/approach as "Direct" for LFBO and expect an assignment upon entering the region.

approaches by Virtual-Chris (Junk Photos), on Flickr

The top assignment is what I get with default MSFS nav data.  That is an approach that is in the flight planner and available in the MCDU.  On the Navigraph charts, its the standard runway 14 approach from the south east.  Although I wish ATC was giving me an ILS assignment instead of a VOR DME, I'll take it as is and simply program the ILS equivalent into the MCDU. The transition is readily identifiable on the charts and in the nav data.

The bottom assignment is what I get with Navigraph nav data.  I don't know what this is. It's not in the MCDU. I can't find it in the charts. And I don't understand it.  It seems out in left field. It would be great if someone more savvy with charts could explain that.

So, my conclusion for now is that I'm going to fly without Navigraph data.  As I say, the charts are great, but what's most important for me, is getting a real-time approach assignment from ATC that makes sense, and is available in the MCDU so I can program it and fly it.  While the ATC can be bad in this game, particularly with altitude assignments that disregard restrictions and terrain, I can intelligently disobey those.  But the ATC is at least predictable in many other ways and "good enough" that I don't need to spend another $60USD on a more realistic ATC.  And Pilot2ATC really needs to up it's game on the text to voice synthesis for that price it sounds like it's 20 year old tech.

Edited November 19, 20205 yr by Virtual-Chris

I use Navigraph charts and export the flight plan to FS2020 and also to Pilot 2 ATC.  You get great approach instructions instead of being cleared to land a few thousand feet above the runway threshold.  With P2ATC you also get altitude changes before you reach the last altitude so you don't have to start over again with the VS setting.

Bill

1 minute ago, Bill Griffith said:

I use Navigraph charts and export the flight plan to FS2020 and also to Pilot 2 ATC.  You get great approach instructions instead of being cleared to land a few thousand feet above the runway threshold.  With P2ATC you also get altitude changes before you reach the last altitude so you don't have to start over again with the VS setting.

Bill

Are you just flying the approach you plan? Or getting one assigned from ATC enroute?

BTW, I haven’t had problems with the ATC stepping me down, although sometimes I get the odd mid approach instruction to climb to FL150 which I have to ignore. It’s certainly not perfect, but for my needs of assigning me an approach when I get into the airspace, it works reasonably well. 

16 hours ago, JJ_ said:

The whole reason for paying for Navigraph is to have close to reality IFR flights, but if the sim is not using the same data, I can see how that defeats the main purpose of paying for Navigraph.

I don't know that I'd say not to get Navigraph. I'd be more likely to say don't use default ATC.  I think P2ATC is compatible with MSFS, and it's a lot better.

Your biggest problem is going to be scenery. Navigraph might be able to update the FMS in whatever plane you're flying, but it can't fix missing airports. I did a flight from Russia over the polar circle and down to the continental US, just to see how the sim would handle it. I planned a fuel stop at a regional airport in Alaska, which has a nice long runway for the jet I was flying.

Trouble was, I got there and while the navigation fixes were present in MSFS, the airport was not, so I didn't get to land. But you're going to run into that problem whether you use Navigraph or not.

 

 

Edited November 19, 20205 yr by eslader

So many posts and so many people missing where the OP has missed a crucial step:

What hasn't been done is to use the Navigraph Beta data loader for MSFS!!!

What the OP has done is to use the latest Navigraph data in Simbrief then load the flight plan into MSFS which is still using the Navblue data.

What the OP needs to down is to download the Navigraph MSFS Beta data loader for MSFS 2020 from the Navigraph forum and then use that to load the Navigraph data into MSFS. The data set in Simbrief/Navigraph will then be in complete sync with the data in MSFS.

CJ

22 hours ago, regis9 said:

I’ve been using the Navigraph beta in MSFS for a bit now and haven’t encountered any issues so far.  If you do come across anything I’d encourage reporting it to Navigraph, I’ve always found them very responsive.

One issue that I reported and Navigraph acknowledged was a known issue is:  that a fix which is the beginning of an approach cannot be searched up during flight when issued a direct by atc. However the same fix pops up in the flightplan when loading the approach containing the fix from the proc page. 

...if I remembered correctly that is. 

Edited November 19, 20205 yr by haklis