A game or a simulation?

[Gary1124 181]

I think MS/Asobo should definatley consider doing what is necessary to acquire training accreditation. They should reach out to FAA, CAA, Boeing, Embry Riddle, and authorities across the aviation spectrum. They could have a more game like just for fun mode and they could have full on hard core training and design mode. They should try to grab peices of X-plane's and Prepar3d's business.

[blueshark747 1,845]

MSFS is whatever the owner/purchaser of the software want's it to be!

Today its a medieval "How to train your dragon" flying game...because I said so!

No worries...fire breathing and land scorching is also in the works for it.🤣

 

Edited April 24, 2021 by blueshark747

[Gary1124 181]

I think once the basic engine is perfected they should take the frame work and spin off a separate combat simulation from it. Including a 1940s module for WWII combat. 

Imagine, the whole civil and military package with addons could occupy a terabyte.

[ADamiani 470]

On 4/22/2021 at 2:54 AM, Noel said:

Why does it matter whether people call it a game, or a simulation?  It is exactly what it is, no matter what it's called.

This is a good question. And I like the answer: it is what it is, no need to qualify it.

Except when you want to qualify the user by the tool 😉

So the equation is "tool is a simulator" -> "user is close to a real pilot"

I don't think this is the case, but this is just my opinion

A.

[TrafficPilot 121]

"Perspective people.  It’s all a game. "

No. Flying is a skill.

Microsoft "Flight" Simulator is a game.

[Gary1124 181]

I would say it all depends on how it is used. With correct modeling, correct peripherals, professional and regulatory endorsement it could be training.

[VFXSimmer 1,310]

1 hour ago, TrafficPilot said:

"Perspective people.  It’s all a game. "

No. Flying is a skill.

Microsoft "Flight" Simulator is a game.

“Somebody help, the pilot and copilot are nonresponsive.  Is there a flight simmer on board!?” ... said no one, ever.

Flying a real plane is a skill.  Flying a pc is a game.  An incredibly fun and engaging one, but still a game.  Doesn’t make it any more or less significant to those of us who love it, but...

... hold on, what? ...

... I’m talking to...

(Sigh) .. yea ok I’ll fix the toilet dear ...

[kaosfere 3,115]

I'm never sure whether it's more hilarious or depressing that we keep having this same old argument as if anyone has ever changed their view one iota because of it.

But as long as we're waving our colors here for no particular reason other than that it justifies our own feelings, I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Unless I can log real-world training hours with it, then, to me, it's not a simulator.  It's a game.

Now matter how much following "real world" procedures you can do, or how much you spend on hardware, or how seriously you take it as you're sitting in your rickety office chair, to use @VFXSimmer's phrasing -- or your $800 cockpit chair, for that matter -- it's a game.  It may be a "simulation game", in that it at least attempts to accurately simulate reality, but it's still a game.

Heck, I'm currently being paid to work full-time to make it more closely model reality, but in my mind it's still a game.  I want to make it as good and as realistic as I can, and I'd personally love to play a hand in getting it to the point where it could be used to log real-world training hours.  But, until that point, should it ever come to pass, it's still a game.  Putting any grander import on it would be for the benefit of my own ego.

Edited April 25, 2021 by kaosfere

[leprechaunlive 1,859]

18 minutes ago, kaosfere said:

I'm never sure whether it's more hilarious or depressing that we keep having this same old argument as if anyone has ever changed their view one iota because of it.

But as long as we're waving our colors here for no particular reason other than that it justifies our own feelings, I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Unless I can log real-world training hours with it, then, to me, it's not a simulator.  It's a game.

Now matter how much following "real world" procedures you can do, or how much you spend on hardware, or how seriously you take it as you're sitting in your rickety office chair, to use @VFXSimmer's phrasing -- or your $800 cockpit chair, for that matter -- it's a game.  It may be a "simulation game", in that it at least attempts to accurately simulate reality, but it's still a game.

Heck, I'm currently being paid to work full-time to make it more closely model reality, but in my mind it's still a game.  I want to make it as good and as realistic as I can, and I'd personally love to play a hand in getting it to the point where it could be use to log real-world training hours.  But, until that point, should it ever come to pass, it's still a game.  Putting any grander import on it would be for the benefit of my own ego.

Make it a simulation already, you are our last hope! 🙂 (im with you btw, just a game, grown ups pretending to be pilots, D&D with planes, but its bloody good game!)

[Moria15 950]

1 hour ago, kaosfere said:

.  I want to make it as good and as realistic as I can, and I'd personally love to play a hand in getting it to the point where it could be used to log real-world training hours.  But, until that point, should it ever come to pass, it's still a game.

And if you could log real world hours.. how many would actually pay similar to other "real" simulators at $750 per annum or more for the software alone to have a rating quality version?  Can you seriously imagine the outcry if that was announced?

Graham

Edited April 25, 2021 by Moria15

[The Flight Level 2,116]

@kaosfere

Hi Rob,

During my flight training, it was mandatory to have a couple of sessions on the flight simulator at the flight center being watched by the flight instructor. The time on their simulator counted and was entered in my log book. I think I logged 1.5 hrs on the simulator. The crazy thing ... my setup at home was way better than the antiquated simulator they used. It was so ridiculously slow. It has  since been updated to a Redbird Flight Simulator.

Edited April 25, 2021 by Doering

[Gary1124 181]

6 hours ago, VFXSimmer said:

“Somebody help, the pilot and copilot are nonresponsive.  Is there a flight simmer on board!?” ... said no one, ever.

Flying a real plane is a skill.  Flying a pc is a game.  An incredibly fun and engaging one, but still a game.  Doesn’t make it any more or less significant to those of us who love it, but...

... hold on, what? ...

... I’m talking to...

(Sigh) .. yea ok I’ll fix the toilet dear ...

No. Simming will never take the place of flight training or ground school. I'm just saying depending on how it is executed it can supplement seat time to a limited extent.

I tell you this much. If I were on a flight and the flight deck crew was unresponsive and there were no pilots of any kind on the manifest save one simmer who had like 400 hours with the PMDG 737 Max using as authentic procedures as possible for a desktop then I say the passengers chances were a lot better than if that simmer wasn't there.

[Moria15 950]

9 minutes ago, Gary1124 said:

 

I tell you this much. If I were on a flight and the flight deck crew was unresponsive and there were no pilots of any kind on the manifest save one simmer who had like 400 hours with the PMDG 737 Max using as authentic procedures as possible for a desktop then I say the passengers chances were a lot better than if that simmer wasn't there.

Yeah  ermmm no.  I'd rather have one solid person who can listen to the tower and be talked down and can listen to and fully follow instructions and do what they are told rather than have someone who says.,..  hey dude.. I've flown 400 hours in a sim so I know what I am doing and it doesn't work like that in P3D.

 

Graham   

 

[Gary1124 181]

13 minutes ago, Moria15 said:

Yeah  ermmm no.  I'd rather have one solid person who can listen to the tower and be talked down and can listen to and fully follow instructions and do what they are told rather than have someone who says.,..  hey dude.. I've flown 400 hours in a sim so I know what I am doing and it doesn't work like that in P3D.

 

Graham   

 

Me to. But if that is all who is there the alternative is a certain air disaster.

[blueshark747 1,845]

There was a real life airline pilot who said somewhere long ago, that given the situation your average flight simmer wouldn’t even be able to handle the controls of an airliner on an approach and landing without freaking out once we’ve felt the robust feel of a real yoke and throttle quadrant when autopilot is off and the surface controls are in your hands with air/wind tossing the huge airliner around and the runway touchdown approaching quickly.

Edited April 26, 2021 by blueshark747