A game or a simulation?

Only serious "simulators" talk in this forum. Complain about the rightly considerable deficiencies in the programming of the aircraft. The landscape, which deteriorates with every update, is also criticized.

 

Please note, however, that Asobo was commissioned by MS to use the existing “Bing Maps” that hardly anyone has used so far and to develop a “flight game” with the limited hardware resources of the upcoming X-Box. Target very high subscriber numbers.

 

But what did Asobo do, they worked with enthusiasm and shot far beyond the target! An A320 was certainly not wanted in this form for a flight game that a ten-year-old should also be able to master.

 

A warning example that should be mentioned here is the setting of FSX by MS, as there was no longer any commercial interest in further development.

 

From this “commercial point of view, some things that were previously incomprehensible may become clearer.

MS wants to reach a mass market with the flying game, but the users who come back from Prepard 3d and others are neglectable. A simulation that requires top-class hardware is not the target group!

 

Compare the numbers FS2020, 2 million, Fortnite 250 million registered users.

 

We have to be prepared for it!

That is a valid viewpoint.  Nobody knows where we will be over the coming years. 

Asobo mentioned 'serious simmers' a lot in the early days, and the systems and features do seem designed for that, but no doubt they are being pushed by Microsoft to get the number of sales up through the XBox, and I can't see the majority of XBox owners being 'serious simmers'.

While they do need to keep some commonality between PC and XBox versions of the game (i.e. being updated to DX12 together), my hope is that they can keep a separate branch for the 'serious' PC simmer, whatever that is, because I can't see the XBox having the full capability and performance of any decent PC, nor would the average XBox user want it; I think they will be quite happy flying a simplistic aircraft around the nice world scenery provided.

 

Edited December 21, 20205 yr by bobcat999

It's a Game - aren't they all ?  Aren't we all playing games when playing flight simulators not for RW training ?

This being said, and depending on how much more ASOBO and 3rd parties ( pay-ware or the remarkable freeware initiatives we already have ) enhance the flight and systems modelling truth is that IMO right now MFS is less capable of detail than the other two general flight simulation platforms - P3D and X-Plane...

X-Plane still offers a more "professional" base for development of aircraft features ranging from flight dynamics to systems modelling, even using just the default editing tools which are incomparably more sophisticated or, at least, user friendly than what developers have for MFS. In this aspect, if you take into consideration de much simpler approach to modelling used presently in MFS, it is even more game-oriented in my personal perspective than either XP or P3D.

But, there's a feature that is really new and not to be left out when evaluating MFS - the dynamism and the size of the ASOBO development, and their will to cooperate with some of the developers, commercial or non-commercial, as AEROSOFT, FBW and CJ4 project members have made public.

This can really be a "game-changer", pun intended 🙂

Edited December 21, 20205 yr by jcomm

Perhaps that explains why MS/Asobo gave us problem-riddled aircraft, and have omitted several features that were common in past generations of MS flight sims, i.e. animated doors, replay , and 2D panels...

It’s both.

Do we need to keeo asking this question? Call it what you like.

6 minutes ago, DavidP said:

Do we need to keeo asking this question? Call it what you like.

I agree, the use of the words "game" and "simulation" are overgeneralized. That said, I find (after 20+ years of dealing with Microsoft and it's products) the concerns expressed about the future of the product are valid. 

My only consolation is the knowledge that Microsoft builds platforms and expects the development community to fill in the gaps. However, I have seen, (in 20+ years) Microsoft drop many popular platforms because the results were not profitable enough or did not serve their board of directors strategic vision. Remember FSX? Remember Small Business Server?

It would not be a stretch for me to see Microsoft direct Asobo to stop working on Flight Simulator and transfer all their talent to some new, secret government project based on the all-world engine.

Edited December 21, 20205 yr by yurei

Some good points being made here. Perhaps it should be noted that video game development and sales are now big, BIG  business. I dare say, no company is likely to spend millions of dollars to solely target a geeky group of people like flight simmers - some of whom are wacky enough to spend thousands on hardware that makes their bedrooms look like an aircraft cockpit. And don’t get your panties into a twist - this isn’t a criticism - we all have our addictions. I spent over 20 years building an Experimental aircraft from raw materials and a set of plans. But let’s get real. Microsoft isn’t doing this just for fun. It’s all about $$$$$$$$$$$ people. Using the example of myself above - most of today’s consumers don’t have the patience to complete a jigsaw puzzle, much less spend the time immersing themselves in a form of software that requires hours and hours of dedicated learning just to use (what you guys are calling "study-level" aircraft). The technology behind 2020 and it’s general presentation are truly astounding. This from a guy who has been a gamer since the times when computer gaming consisted of typing in lines of text to further a story. The big paying audience here is likely to be somewhere in between simming and entertainment, with the most weight being on the entertainment side of the equation. In truth - since age has removed me from the cockpit, I now post up 2020 for an all-around experience that combines the feel of what I expect as a pilot, with a relatively uncomplicated and satisfying bit of entertainment. I expect the intended audience for this title is also somewhere in between realism and entertainment. That’s where the money is. However you want to define it, I’m grateful for 2020, even in it’s somewhat faulty current state.

I'm going repeat what I wrote before. MSFS is a game and a sim. It all depends how one will use it . MSFS has opportunity to be financially successful because of gamers to have sufficient funds to benefit harcrore simmers .

I think odds are ultra strong MS/A will develop the sim to accommodate 3rd party aircraft developers and 80% of the chief complaints about the current version of MSFS has to do with this deficiency largely.   Apparently PMDG still thinks this is the case from a recent comment from the top there.  What is required to accommodate something like the PMDG NGX/777 or their proposed 737NG3 is seems like small potatoes COMPARED to what you see every time up in MSFS.  I just took off from Barcelona heading to Gibraltar and then up to Lisbon in the absolutely lovely TBM930 which is really pretty much flawless now.  Performance is stellar.  Visuals beyond stellar.  This stuff, this stuff was the super hard part to develop and deploy and quite frankly, even though it's not perfect nor are the atmospherics, it's already super compelling.  A few more hooks in the SDK and folks like PMDG will be on board--this is the super easy part compared to what's already been done.  Here's my prediction:  opening up to Xbox will be the pathway for many of those folks becoming hooked and then the logical place to go could well be towards high end desktop PC w/ the full array of controllers etc.  There is incessant and as I say I believe increasing demand for the more 'complete' product that offers what P3D & XP do for the desktop pilot.

 

It's software...

Right-on! Providing developer access is likely the best avenue to help satisfy those of us who want more aircraft realism, while not destroying the marketing potential for all others. 

Sometimes I think this forum has some form of dementia. How many times must this tedious subject be discussed? 

Im all for discussing whatever floats your boat but my lord just search the subject matter it’s been done to absolute death there is no need for a new topic every other day.

42 minutes ago, DavidP said:

Do we need to keeo asking this question? Call it what you like.

100%

Pin your flag on whatever floats your boat. Its not that serious.(Unless of course one party or the other becomes offended to the point that it becomes necessary to defend their view).

Rolls eyes..

Edited December 21, 20205 yr by Maxis

9 minutes ago, Carts85 said:

Sometimes I think this forum has some form of dementia. How many times must this tedious subject be discussed? 

Im all for discussing whatever floats your boat but my lord just search the subject matter it’s been done to absolute death there is no need for a new topic every other day.

Interesting, with all the topics on this forum and the very transparent title of this thread, that you take any of your valuable time to post your important opinion. Shouldn't you be avoiding all of these blatantly tedious topics?