A game or a simulation?

[TrafficPilot 121]

2 minutes ago, Tuskin38 said:

Same, I'm getting turbulence right now in the A320 off the coast of Italy near Rome.

You would do it is hard coded into the game.

I'm talking about turbulence generated by the weather around you at the time.

I should add - are you using "Live Weather" or a preset? That seems to make a difference.

Edited April 23, 2021 by TrafficPilot

[Tuskin38 6,525]

1 minute ago, TrafficPilot said:

You would do it is hard coded into the game.

I'm talking about turbulence generated by the weather around you at the time.

Well I'm descending through bad weather and getting some decent bumps.
And I've gotten worse in the past.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Tuskin38

[JBDB-MD80 1,473]

1 hour ago, VFXSimmer said:

I find these threads ironically amusing when you consider the vast majority of serious “simmers” are a bunch of old guys in their home office, garage, basements, etc pretending they have a bunch of passengers getting on their fictional plane, calling out over their gaming headsets to “controllers” who are also in their office, garage, or basement, clicking on fictional switches and knobs, pretending the “souls on board” are all trusting their lives to said simmer’s elite skills at greasing a landing with their Thrustmaster joystick.

... and yet we’re worried about calling that a game?

Perspective people.  It’s all a game.

LOL I used to take my landings very serouusly in FSX using a 20$ Logitech gamepad flying the PMDG 737.

[Bobsk8 12,735]

29 minutes ago, TrafficPilot said:

You would do it is hard coded into the game.

I'm talking about turbulence generated by the weather around you at the time.

I should add - are you using "Live Weather" or a preset? That seems to make a difference.

I always use live weather unless icing is a problem

[VFXSimmer 1,310]

53 minutes ago, TrafficPilot said:

You would do it is hard coded into the game.

I'm talking about turbulence generated by the weather around you at the time.

I should add - are you using "Live Weather" or a preset? That seems to make a difference.

MSFS turbulence is not hard coded at all.  It’s weather and airflow based. You get up wash when you pass over mountain ridges, and weather absolutely effects it.  There are several videos that demonstrate the system in the sim.  You see these effects all the time if you do any bush flying.

As far as recreating the complete fidelity of airflow with things like convection currents through cloud layers, etc, I’m not completely sure how far it goes, but solving a finite element fluid dynamics system on a complete airmass is still a bit of an overzealous expectation for real time simulation.  There would need to be some significant degree of simplification/approximation to run at an acceptable FPS.

 

[TrafficPilot 121]

I stand corrected.

I set up a flight into the worst live weather I could find (in Canada). There IS very mild turbulence but nothing like what you would expect flying near or into a weather system like this (see vid link)

 

[OzWhitey 3,353]

7 hours ago, VFXSimmer said:

I find these threads ironically amusing when you consider the vast majority of serious “simmers” are a bunch of old guys in their home office, garage, basements, etc pretending they have a bunch of passengers getting on their fictional plane, calling out over their gaming headsets to “controllers” who are also in their office, garage, or basement, clicking on fictional switches and knobs, pretending the “souls on board” are all trusting their lives to said simmer’s elite skills at greasing a landing with their Thrustmaster joystick.

... and yet we’re worried about calling that a game?

Perspective people.  It’s all a game.

I find these kinds of comments ironically amusing when you consider that you’re posting on a website that is specifically focused on aviation simulation rather than gaming. You notice there is no subforum for Hawx or similar games here, right?

There are so many straw-man assumptions in your post that I wouldn’t know where to start, but i’m bemused that you seem to think using an office or replicating RW ATC is somehow worthy of mockery.

If you are happy with playing a plane game, bully for you, but that’s no reason to throw shade on people who are trying to make a genuine effort to simulate real-world aviation for recreational, training or other purposes.

[VFXSimmer 1,310]

13 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

I find these kinds of comments ironically amusing when you consider that you’re posting on a website that is specifically focused on aviation simulation rather than gaming. You notice there is no subforum for Hawx or similar games here, right?

There are so many straw-man assumptions in your post that I wouldn’t know where to start, but i’m bemused that you seem to think using an office or replicating RW ATC is somehow worthy of mockery.

If you are happy with playing a plane game, bully for you, but that’s no reason to throw shade on people who are trying to make a genuine effort to simulate real-world aviation for recreational, training or other purposes.

This website is equally enjoyed by a range of enthusiasts.  I think the shade you feel only echos the shade you throw when you dismiss others who enjoy different aspects of the simulation experience.  They are no less important and no less deserving of respect than those who like to make believe their “serious” simulation is somehow more important than it is.  “Playing pretend” that you are driving an airliner when you’re sitting in front of a PC and then mocking someone else as using a “plane game” is a bit pompish and elitist.  
 

I’ve loved flight simming  for 35+ years now.  I’ve always had fun trying following proper procedures and have generally followed the POH checklists to the letter even when I know the systems I’m checking aren’t going to fail.  Over the years it’s often required a healthy dose of imagination because the depth of system simulation was limited by pc capabilities, but it was still enjoyable.  Perhaps that’s why I can look past the odd bug or two as things are ironed out.  But I also get equal thrill putting the procedures aside and seeing the world beautifully and realistically depicted in my vr goggles and virtually revisiting places I’ve been and places I’d love to see in real life.   I find both experiences awesome and it’s a great time for all of us in this hobby that keeps getting better - esp looking back over those 35 years.

If someone wearing a track IR on his head while playing armchair pilot wants to mock any of that as being “gamey” - it’s hard to take it them too seriously IMO.  That said, I do applaud all of those that find ways to push the realism and even glean training experience from it.  But I don’t consider theirs the only voices worth listening to or paying respect for.  Anyone who finds joy in the hobby should be welcome and has an opinion worth considering.

[Ricardo41 5,949]

If they call it a simulation, it's much easier for simmers to sell this stuff to their wives. 

Wife: Honey, what are you doing? U fixed the leaky toilet yet?

Avsimmer: I'm flying an airplane!

Wife: You're sitting in front of your pc, you're not flying an airplane.

Avsimmer: Yes, I am. It's very serious business. It's really just like them pilots do it in the real thing. 

_________________________________________________________________________________

Wife: Honey, what are you doing? U fixed the leaky toilet yet?

Avsimmer: I'm playing a game!

Wife: Go fix the leaky toilet!!!

[Noel 4,503]

4 hours ago, VFXSimmer said:

This website is equally enjoyed by a range of enthusiasts.  I think the shade you feel only echos the shade you throw when you dismiss others who enjoy different aspects of the simulation experience.  They are no less important and no less deserving of respect than those who like to make believe their “serious” simulation is somehow more important than it is.  “Playing pretend” that you are driving an airliner when you’re sitting in front of a PC and then mocking someone else as using a “plane game” is a bit pompish and elitist.  
 

I’ve loved flight simming  for 35+ years now.  I’ve always had fun trying following proper procedures and have generally followed the POH checklists to the letter even when I know the systems I’m checking aren’t going to fail.  Over the years it’s often required a healthy dose of imagination because the depth of system simulation was limited by pc capabilities, but it was still enjoyable.  Perhaps that’s why I can look past the odd bug or two as things are ironed out.  But I also get equal thrill putting the procedures aside and seeing the world beautifully and realistically depicted in my vr goggles and virtually revisiting places I’ve been and places I’d love to see in real life.   I find both experiences awesome and it’s a great time for all of us in this hobby that keeps getting better - esp looking back over those 35 years.

If someone wearing a track IR on his head while playing armchair pilot wants to mock any of that as being “gamey” - it’s hard to take it them too seriously IMO.  That said, I do applaud all of those that find ways to push the realism and even glean training experience from it.  But I don’t consider theirs the only voices worth listening to or paying respect for.  Anyone who finds joy in the hobby should be welcome and has an opinion worth considering.

Geez VFX lighten up you're threatening Whitey's raison dêtre!   Rob's unvarnished agenda is to see MSFS fail beyond his wildest dreams.  But oh, he does 'play' it, just not seriously, of course, since he's very serious w/ the other game, no sorry I mean simulation.

[Isaiah53six 134]

15 hours ago, Krakin said:

So since X-Plane is also on mobile, that means it is an arcade game masquerading as a sim and not to be taken seriously, right.....right?

actually I do agree the mobile version is quite gamey...I mean I can hardly see what's happening on the screen..LOL........the computer version is probably debatable... but whether it's a game or simulator is fine.... they're both fun to play although I do like the graphics better in MSFS2020 now

Edited April 24, 2021 by Isaiah53six
spelling fixes

[Isaiah53six 134]

On 4/22/2021 at 8:44 PM, Noel said:

So you think it's the hardware that define sim v game eh?  Interesting.  You are aware Xbox One X supports wireless USB devices--keyboard, mouse, etc?

generally I do think that.... PC has higher capabilities with custom builds etc. all depending how much money people want to put into their machine but I know the times are changing so anything is possible for what consoles will be developed to do. 

[Isaiah53six 134]

14 hours ago, VFXSimmer said:

Perspective people.  It’s all a game.

them there are fightin words especially here on this forum.......but yeah I agree

[Kilo60 660]

Actually it’s a:

“Simame”

There now we can finally bury this topic!

[Ricardo41 5,949]

12 hours ago, OzWhitey said:

people who are trying to make a genuine effort to simulate real-world aviation

But that's exactly the point, you cannot simulate aviation by sitting on a rickety office chair, moving a $30 joystick around. Basically, the simulation part is all in your head, which is fine, but it has no bearing on the real world, other than that you should probably fix that leaky toilet. 

And that's precicesly the definition of a game: it takes you out of the real world and into a make believe world where you can "lose" yourself for a few hours. I mean, when I play Gears of War, I don't actually think I'm Marcus Fenix. 

Edited April 24, 2021 by Ricardo41