10 minutes ago, jpe828 said:

Ah, I will have to bite the bullet... does the cockpit shake, rattle and roll? Sounds pretty good? Feel realistic? Is it semi study level in terms of systems? 

 

I see with the Cri Cri the dev updated it pretty quickly which is encouraging. Yes, no AP is annoying but sometimes hand flying is rewarding while flying VFR hops! How does it trim out for level flight?

I think it's not study level but may as well become If developer will continue enhance. I can tale you for sure that most gauges are alive jerking, rattling and so on. You even can cage and uncage attitude gyro.

I just got off flying 2 hours manually. There are elevator and rudder trim, so yes it's not bad. But again autopilot would be most welcome! 

Purchased! I will give my own review shortly.

First Impressions, for what it is worth (not much!, and please know I am super picky)... 25 minutes around the pattern... its not bad... but not great. IMO. It seems unrefined, unpolished hopefully patches will address some of it. Flight model seems good, although on approach it tends to get REAL slow even with a decent amount of power in and just a couple notches of flaps. The fluidity of the flight model feels good. The visuals are good. There is a bug with the landing light covers from cockpit view. It is certainly not Carenado visuals... some of the gauges are kind of tough to read almost looking blurry.. small, etc. 

A few comments I have not seen noted here:

1. Wow, the sound when landing kills it for me. I should have waited for a video... probably wouldn't buy it just based on that. Think of a massive BANG when landing even smoothly. Really brutal immersion killer. I hope the dev fixes that. 

2. Fuel pump has no sound

3. Sounds in general are just ok... kind of basic. The gauges certainly do not shake and rattle as someone else said... the compass might. 

4. The mixture seems like it is off or on. This is a major issue for me. You can lean, and nothing happens at all until the engine dies. Same with Carb heat, doesn't have an RPM drop at all. 

5. Throttle and prop seem very very sensitive. A small adjustment of the level is alot of RPM change. Also have to figure out how the engine and prop work, as there does not seem to be a governor in this airplane (could be model specific). 

6. Shutdown sounds and effects are lacking. 

I think with some patching and refinement this could be a good VFR touring bird... I look forward to it. And please get rid of those landing sounds OMG! Obviously this is 25 minutes... will fly it some more and see if it grows on me!

Edited December 28, 20205 yr by jpe828

8 minutes ago, jpe828 said:

First Impressions, for what it is worth (not much!, and please know I am super picky)... 25 minutes around the pattern... its not bad... but not great. IMO. It seems unrefined, unpolished hopefully patches will address some of it. Flight model seems good, although on approach it tends to get REAL slow even with a decent amount of power in and just a couple notches of flaps. The fluidity of the flight model feels good. The visuals are good. There is a bug with the landing light covers from cockpit view. It is certainly not Carenado visuals... some of the gauges are kind of tough to read almost looking blurry.. small, etc. 

A few comments I have not seen noted here:

1. Wow, the sound when landing kills it for me. I should have waited for a video... probably wouldn't buy it just based on that. Think of a massive BANG when landing even smoothly. Really brutal immersion killer. I hope the dev fixes that. 

2. Fuel pump has no sound

3. Sounds in general are just ok... kind of basic. The gauges certainly do not shake and rattle as someone else said... the compass might. 

4. The mixture seems like it is off or on. This is a major issue for me. You can lean, and nothing happens at all until the engine dies. Same with Carb heat, doesn't have an RPM drop at all. 

5. Throttle and prop seem very very sensitive. A small adjustment of the level is alot of RPM change. Also have to figure out how the engine and prop work, as there does not seem to be a governor in this airplane (could be model specific). 

6. Shutdown sounds and effects are lacking. 

I think with some patching and refinement this could be a good VFR touring bird... I look forward to it. And please get rid of those landing sounds OMG! Obviously this is 25 minutes... will fly it some more and see if it grows on me!

Thank you for your honesty jpe828. I do agree with everything you wrote but I do feel this is a pretty good plane(for the cost). I own both this plane and the Mooney and if I had to choose one I think I'd have to get the Mooney because of the autopilot(and I can't read the German panel). For short hops around my local airport this plane is fun but any flights longer than an hour I get pretty tired, although the plane does trim really nice. Also, for long flights this thing is SLOW compared to the Mooney, and ya I do know they are completely different types of planes. Thanks again for the time you put into this and for telling it like it is.

1 hour ago, Chock said:

Okay, comparison coming up...

It compares favourably in terms of visuals with Carenado's Mooney, and as you know, visuals are a strong point with Carenado, so this is a good thing. It has a 'lived in' look in its VC, which is detailed and worn, but the wear is convincing and not overdone, since this is, after all, a military aeroplane which tends to mean they get fairly well looked after and cleaned etc; the hammered-metal paint on the coaming and typical dull black painted panels of a German aeroplane of this era (as I think has been the one they referenced, rather than an Italian one, although I might be wrong about that), with switches very much of that period are well modeled, so it all looks very convincing.

Externally the paint jobs are very clean, as again befits either a military trainer or a well-cared for classic, as these things are these days, since if you wanted to buy a real one of these things today, it'd probably cost you about 65 thousand quid or so. Thus they tend to get looked after because whilst that isn't a fortune, it is still quite a bit of cash.

A minus point here with the external model, is that some visual glitches can crop up, with pilots occasionally being placed so they stick out of the cockpit. This doesn't happen a lot, but there is obviously some issue here which does need addressing with a patch, because I've not seen any Carenado aeroplanes do this, or any Asobo ones either for that matter. Aside for this, the thing looks great and most of the time this glitch is not there to spoil that.

Flight-wise, I'm only guessing here because I've never flown a real one, but I have flown stuff similar to it in terms of their role, such as an SA Bulldog and a DH Chipmunk, and it seems to fly about as one would expect it to although strictly speaking, the P.149 was originally a 'tourer' despite its use as a military training aeroplane, since it was intended to be a commercial nosewheel-equipped four/five seat development of the two-seater P.148, the 148 genuinely being a pure ab-initio trainer. Thus the 149 was also used as a liaison aeroplane, so it's more like an aerobatic tourer which can be used for training, than a pure trainer, hence me comparing it to the Bulldog, which is a bit like that too.

Beyond this speculation on my part as to what the real thing handles like, I can say that it does fly really very nicely in the sim, with you well able to pin it onto a heading precisely just using the whiskey compass, and it isn't difficult to keep it going straight either, so for those concerned about it not having a magenta line to follow with an autopilot, this is not as much of a hardship as you might suppose. However, since we are comparing it to the Carenado Mooney on this occasion, if you want a good IFR single which can be flown through crappy weather, and in which it will not be tiring to do so when you have no visual horizon reference, then this is not the plane for you.

You can fly it IFR, but you'll be working to do that since there is no GPS and no autopilot, but a GPS may come in a patch (possibly). It's really a chuck it around the sky aerobatic VFR day tourer if you want to quantify its role. And very good at that role it is, quite possibly the nicest overall add-on aeroplane yet for MSFS, even in spite of its visual glitches.

The sound could do with some improvement for the switchology. Overall it is pretty good, with a decent engine sound, and despite what some people are claiming, the sound level does indeed change when you open the canopy. In the VC the sound needs improving: Those kind of clunky spring-loaded switches, mounted in hammerite-painted panels with 1/4 inch jack nuts, have a really distinctive sound when you flip them (hard to describe, but anyone who ever had a 1960s reel to reel tape recorder or amp will know what I'm talking about here), and this thing could do with some sounds a bit more like that when you flip the switches in order to really 'put you there'. This is not a deal breaker of course, but it would be a nice touch to make things more convincing.

So overall when comparing it to the Mooney from Carenado, in terms of what you'd use the two for, that's a bit 'apples and oranges', but in terms of quality, I think this one edges it a bit over the Carenado, or at least it almost certainly will when it gets a patch, and of course patches can be a bit hit and miss from Carenado sometimes although in fairness to them, recently they have done okay on that score for the most part, so we'll see how the developer of this thing stacks up against that.

If you want my personal opinion, I think it is well worth the 18 quid price tag if you want a nice aeroplane of this type. It's a good all-rounder, great for VFR, and fun to chuck about the sky, although a bit less convincing if you get out of shape, since it seems very reluctant to spin, and I doubt the real thing would be so accommodating given some of the things I was doing with it, but fun for all that. With no autopilot and no fancy glass PFDs nor GPS to hold your hand, it is less suited to effortless longer IFR trips - if that's what you like - in which case the Mooney would be a better choice, but if you want a bit of old-school stick and rudder flying, it'll be right up your straße. If you think 'aerobatic Messerschmitt bf108', you're kind of in the right ballpark.

Thanks Chock for all the time you put into telling us about this plane!

29 minutes ago, Daytona125 said:

Thank you for your honesty jpe828. I do agree with everything you wrote but I do feel this is a pretty good plane(for the cost).

Certainly! As I said, I am not knocking it, and agree that it is not bad at all. I also see the dev updated the Cri Cri alot... which is great. I am sure that will be the same experience. 

Found a real bug... flying along cross country... my whole cockpit froze... nothing moving. Dials frozen, throttle, mixture etc. I just started clicking around and it un froze. 2 minutes late, went to cage the gyro... froze... then unfroze randomly. Then froze again... not cool!

8 minutes ago, jpe828 said:

Found a real bug... flying along cross country... my whole cockpit froze... nothing moving. Dials frozen, throttle, mixture etc. I just started clicking around and it un froze. 2 minutes late, went to cage the gyro... froze... then unfroze randomly. Then froze again... not cool!

Maddening! Just happened to me after an hour flight just as I was approaching my runway about 2 miles from touch down in the Mooney. Just about threw my new Oculus quest 2 against the wall lol.

Just now, Daytona125 said:

Maddening! Just happened to me after an hour flight just as I was approaching my runway about 2 miles from touch down in the Mooney. Just about threw my new Oculus quest 2 against the wall lol.

Yeah, I just emailed the Dev to see what the deal is. Will update here. If its not fixed soon I want my money back. 

2 hours ago, Daytona125 said:

Thanks Chock for all the time you put into telling us about this plane!

Thanks for quoting his epic comparison in full  🍻 At least it gave my mouse wheel a workout!

10 hours ago, sd_flyer said:

Canopy yes but not window,. Carenado by the way got it right. Again not a bid deal really!

Ahhh right gotcha!

If you mean the DV panels, then yes, they unlatch, but don't open; then again, on many aeroplanes in MSFS, it crashes the plane saying you 'have overstressed it' if you open the DV panels in flight, which is stupid because they are intended to be opened in flight, so perhaps they did this in lieu of avoiding that stupid problem in MSFS.

20 hours ago, driver101 said:

Unfortunately after several attempts it is not working. All radios/transponder are inop.

Try a cold and dark start. All overhead switches on, radio switch On (on Com radio, left sail: press to select On). Now press Ctril+E then dial in your frequency (using dial on left, plus two different virtual dials on RHS of radio. Bingo. 

A bit strange, a bit unclear, needs AT Simulations' attention but I have repeatedly managed to breathe life into it. 

2 hours ago, Chock said:

If you mean the DV panels, then yes, they unlatch, but don't open; then again, on many aeroplanes in MSFS, it crashes the plane saying you 'have overstressed it' if you open the DV panels in flight, which is stupid because they are intended to be opened in flight, so perhaps they did this in lieu of avoiding that stupid problem in MSFS.

They do open (and they don't have sound). After unlatching the clasps click the area between the clasps. 

16 minutes ago, lupedelupe said:

Try a cold and dark start. All overhead switches on, radio switch On (on Com radio, left sail: press to select On). Now press Ctril+E then dial in your frequency (using dial on left, plus two different virtual dials on RHS of radio. Bingo. 

A bit strange, a bit unclear, needs AT Simulations' attention but I have repeatedly managed to breathe life into it. 

This is what I have to do. After I get the plane started(all switches on) I do the Ctrl-E and the radios do come on. A bug I’m sure and hopefully an easy fix for the next update. At least this gets us by in the meantime.

Edited December 28, 20205 yr by Daytona125
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