Mike, we all know who finances ACES, and how their product sales is probably 100 times the amount a great developer like PMDG or LevelD, Eaglesoft, etc would hope to get. They charge a lot of money but in the long run, ACES can afford it. small time companies cannot. your point is not valid

>Man i feel embarrassed for us as a group after coming up to>speed in this thread. It's a wonder that any dev will create>future products for us if this is how we treat them. These>people have families to feed and don't create these packages>for us out of the goodness of their hearts. They run a>business and have bills and salaries to pay which happens by>us buying their products. Take a step back all and look at it>from a different perspective. >>I bought both Ron's XL2 for FS9 and FSX and did not think>twice about it myself since it is the best GA addon that i own>(minus its somewhat sluggish performance). Yeah sure Ron can>be rough around the edges and tends to defend his products>without fault, but overall the man makes wonderful products.>We as consumers need to make a choice as to which products we>buy so that we can get the best bang for our buck and support>these guys who provide us with MUCHHHHH better aircraft and>scenery than MS does out of the box. After reading this thread>if i were a developer i would just say "F it" and close my>shop. I feel embarrassed to even be a member here.Dave, thanks for the kind words regarding our products but even more thanks for the mature viewpoint about the subject at hand:-)We really don't mean to be "rough around the edges" with anyone and that is certainly not our aim when we post.:-) We work very hard to produce quality products at reasonable pricepoints and intend to continue in that same spirit even knowing that we cannot please everyone as we move forward:-)The great thing about development for us is that we get to build some pretty cool airplanes and see a vast majority of owners having a blast with our aircraft:-) :-)

LOL"What is next? Make me pay for a bugfix?"Please don`t give these guys any ideas.;)Pete

Hi Rob!Even though I was a grat fan of yours from the "Good old FLY! days" I actually never got around to buy your product for MS Flightsim. After this great response I can hardly wait for my computer upgrade so I can purchase and use your product for FSX!Great customer support goes a long way!Well done and God blessAlfred

Thanks for the good laughs I got out of this thread. You guys are funnier than George Carlin doing Richard Pryor immitations:-lol John M

Hmmm, I'm not laughing. As a recently unstealthed thread contributor said, it's kind of embarrassing to read some of this.Comments:- it is a given that porting even the same, identical, "works and looks like it did in FS9" product is a significant amount of work for some kinds of add-ons - especially aircraft. This development takes time and should not be expected as charity from payware developers. That said...- As a customer of many of the add-on payware vendors, I do expect a bit more than a token acknowledgement of my previous purchases. But when that acknowledgement is made...- I just purchased the update of the fully updated SF.260 Real Air airplane. I think it's fabulous that they are offering a "compatibility" update for free, but frankly I was not expecting it. I reacted to my surprise by ponying up the $ for the fully FS-X-compliant (not sure if that's the right word) version. Let me say again that I did not EXPECT and ASSUME that they would update their FS2004 version to work with FS-X without compensation, but the fact that they not only did that but also significantly updated the product with new (and amazing!) features made it my first FS-X add-on upgrade purchase.- The acrimonious tone of several follow-up posts here is very distressing. I just went through a similar experience in a real-world helicopter forum that I have participated in for several years, and frankly it's taken the fun out of reading that site at least for a while. I realize in retrospect that even I posted some less than polite postings a couple-three times (mostly due to what I perceived at the time to be rank stupidity and/or intolerance) and have resolved to try to wait a little longer before pressing the "Post" button.- Folks, if nothing else we're nearing the end of a year that at least for me is one I'm happy to put behind me. In the spirit of what is good (GREAT) about this hobby and passion, please consider starting out the new year with considerate, friendly, and respectful posts. I happen to be in complete disagreement with the OP but this thread has (IMO) gotten way out of hand and really, kinda ugly. it's not fun at all to read.Finally - sir, step away from the smiley face. Put down the smiley face, and no-one will get hurt.Hoping/praying for whirled peas,Dave Blevins-Real Pilot-Pretend Pilot-Avsim Junkie

>Most payware is LESS THAN THE COST OF A GOOD DINNER FOR TWO,>and people still whine about paying $29.99 for a product that>you're going to use for two years or more.>>How many more times do we have to read this tripe, time and>time again??>>Make your own decision about what you want to buy, how much>you want to pay, and get on with life. End of story. Happy New>Year.>Could not have said better! To but or not to buy is up to you - that's it!Happy New Year!

Several posts up, PBN wrote:"I don't get it, why every time someone questions pay ware products, it's treated as trolling or worse."I share PBN's curiosity why discussions of price are viewed as trolling. I started a thread asking people's opinions about add-on prices, and there was very much an an air of confrontation in the responses.Since we discuss add-ons at length here, and as long as civility is maintained, why can add-ons prices not be discussed? If we were discussing an MS operating program like XP or Vista, nobody would mind questioning how much they cost and why. Yet with flightsim add-ons, it immediately becomes "How dare you accuse my friend of being greedy!" and "You coulnd't C+++ your way out of a paper Piper!"I, for one, think many add-ons are over-priced. Many are not. Some are free courtesy of talented and generous developers. If I am a paying customer who shares this hobby and posts in a civil manner, then why is discussing price such a taboo?Just as a point - being free to chose what and where to buy is not a de facto negation of one's right to discuss what and where to buy. After all, discussion is the only reason we are here.

Apparently not locked yet.Surely if this thread has proven anything it is that 'backward compatibility' does not exist in FSX or at best is very convoluted. I thought this was one reason for FSX performing the way it does.Anyway, I have purchased several add ons (for fs9) and I have found them all to be brilliant and well worth the cash, I am surprised to hear about some which are not so good and shall be very cautious with my purchases in the future. By the way for you developers, customer treatment comes very high on my list.Happy New Year*:-* :-newbie :-beerchug

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>....I thought this was one reason for FSX performing>the way it does.By now i would think that all of us know there is no real reason why fsx performs the way that it does ;)________________________________________________________________________________________________Intel D975XBX2 'Bad Axe 2' | Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 @ 3.20Ghz | 2 GB Super Talent DDR2 800 @ 893Mhz | Big Typhoon VX | eVGA 8800GTS @ 575/900 | Seagate 2x 320GB SATA RAID-0 | OCZ GameXStream 700W | Creative X-Fi | Silverstone TJ-09BW

Hey AstroDave! I'm going to be a Devil's advocate for a second. . .Below is just as a (fun, I hope) example as to how a "war" is started by an innocent troll. . .A NEW TOPIC!! <"i would think that all of us know there is no real reason why fsx performs the way that it does ">"What d'you mean by that?? FSX sucks bigtime! Didn't you do a search??? It's Micro$$$$oft's big Holiday joke on the community. They're going to release FSX1 in January! . . EVERYBODY will (probably) be able to get 60 fps around Seattle!. . . . . . . . . . . .Listen, guys, as in life generally - there are some dev companies that have a lousy rep: even MS have their detractors, and it's a well-known fact that "you can't please all the people all the time". We're all human and we all see things differently. Also - communication via short posts most often does not, and cannot convey what one often wants to say. One needs voice inflection, facial expression and body language to properly communicate, and even where face to face discussion takes, misunderstandings still persist. I don't think for a second that the OP intended to arouse the ire of so many people, and I'm sure that if we were sitting next to each other at a ball game, any of us would think he was a great guy; same with Ron, Mke T. and Larry A. Most big corporations, any human resource personel will confirm that emails and posts made in isolation are possibly the worst means of "chewing the fat". So. . . for me, at any rate this whole thread was interesting to some degree: I got "sucked in" somewhat (as did a few others), but please, guys - don't let it get personal: Nobody likes public arguments and slanging matches: Ron and Eaglesoft have a darned good reputation judging from all the mentions on the sim sites; Mike T. has also a similar "good, honest rep from all the work he does with AvSim, and Larry Adamson is one of the (feel free to disagree, Mrs. Adamson) straightest, most open-minded and honest and prolific posters on this site. It is a daily pleasure to sit back and read the variety of content that comes from AvSim. Let's keep on making it a pleasure. Paul J

Coincidently Rob, I never saw a complaint about RealAir charging for the SF260 for FSX. That too a discount.The market knows.:)Manny

It's no secret that the game runs pretty poorly for most people. Obviously MS knows this too or they wouldn't have admitted to working on a 'performance' patch for it. I would hardly consider this as being an example of trolling. I can find you some real examples of trolling in case you are still unsure of the definition. :)________________________________________________________________________________________________Intel D975XBX2 'Bad Axe 2' | Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 @ 3.20Ghz | 2 GB Super Talent DDR2 800 @ 893Mhz | Big Typhoon VX | eVGA 8800GTS @ 575/900 | Seagate 2x 320GB SATA RAID-0 | OCZ GameXStream 700W | Creative X-Fi | Silverstone TJ-09BW

Dave - my post was intended as an example of "how trolling works". IT OBVIOUSLY WORKED!!! (didn't it)The SUBJECT is (almost) irrelevant. It doesn't matter. A good troll brings up an inane subject, which everybody will have their own opinion on, because everybody sees the world differently, everybody's system is different, set up differently, with different experiences, etc., and everybody looks for different things. So it spawns some degree of comment. There are some folks who will do this on purpose - to s***-disturb, if you will! The old AvSim users will spot a troll quickly and move on to serious posts, where, perhaps someone is looking for help, or has spotted something just out, etc.. er. . . Can I (sincerely) wish you a "Happy and Prosperous New Year"?Regards,pj