May 22, 20215 yr 4 hours ago, martin-w said: If your spaceship can handle traveling at relativistic velocites, it can handle forces many orders of magnitude greater than lightning, or a bit of hail or a downdraft. What forces do you know of in space that are equivelent to violent thunderstorms or hurricanes? Just because you can go fast in the voids of space doesn't mean you can do the same thing in an atmosphere of thunderstorms. That's why the space station doesn't need streamlining to reduce drag as aircraft do. These arguments are taking religious overtones. You are the evangelical who claims alien omnipotence and I am the atheist who says I don't believe it. Noel Edited May 22, 20215 yr by birdguy The tires are worn. The shocks are shot. The steering is wobbly. But the engine still runs fine.
May 22, 20215 yr This thread started off as interesting, but it has run its course for me..... Christopher Low AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D CPU / 64GB DDR5-6000 RAM / 12GB Nvidia RTX 4070 Super GPU / Gigabyte X870E Aorus Elite Wifi 7 / 1+2TB Samsung Evo Plus M2 Nvme UK2000 Beta Tester
May 22, 20215 yr Speaking of drag, getting from Earth orbit down to Earth surface is pretty violent but these aliens, if they do exist, seem to do it with ease, and they seem to be able to travel at tremendous speeds through our dense lower atmosphere. Edited May 22, 20215 yr by dmwalker Dugald Walker
May 22, 20215 yr 38 minutes ago, Christopher Low said: This thread started off as interesting, but it has run its course for me..... I can't say about everyone else but I know that all my contributions have been really fascinating. Dugald Walker
May 22, 20215 yr Author 1 hour ago, birdguy said: Avoiding weather isn't the same thing s being impervious to it. Noel No, its not, and our hypothetical aliens could do both. Edited May 22, 20215 yr by martin-w
May 22, 20215 yr Author 1 hour ago, birdguy said: What forces do you know of in space that are equivelent to violent thunderstorms or hurricanes? Noel Alcubierre warp drive... see below. The enormous tidal forces would be unfathomably greater than a lightning storm in our atmosphere. Basic physics tells us that the challenges faced to travel at close to light speed are many orders of magnitude greater than simple lightning on Earth. "Enormous tidal forces, however, would be present near the edges of the flat-space volume because of the large space curvature there" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive Quote Just because you can go fast in the voids of space doesn't mean you can do the same thing in an atmosphere of thunderstorms. Nobody said anything about going fast in our atmosphere. If you mean aliens do, hence why they crashed at Roswell, then to be honest, if flying too fast was an issue for them I'm pretty sure they wouldn't do it. Quote These arguments are taking religious overtones. You are the evangelical who claims alien omnipotence and I am the atheist who says I don't believe it. The religious overtones were from you. And not once have I said anything about hypothetical aliens that are omnipotent. Just that if they have such incredible technology that they can get here, then easy stuff like coping with lightning wouldn't be an issue. If you disagree that's fine, not sure how you could, but fair enough if you do. So lets not get this thread locked by arguing round in circles and bringing up religion. It's a fascinating subject, so lets move on.
May 22, 20215 yr Author 1 hour ago, dmwalker said: Speaking of drag, getting from Earth orbit down to Earth surface is pretty violent but these aliens, if they do exist, seem to do it with ease, and they seem to be able to travel at tremendous speeds through our dense lower atmosphere. There have been many such reports. And the claim is no sonic boom either. The 2004 Nimitz incident was one example. The fleet included The Princeton, not just the Nimitz. And The Princeton had the Spy One radar onboard. The most sophisticated radar of the day. The objects were descending from 80,000 to 20,000 feet in less than a second and from 26,000 feet to just a few feet above the ocean in less than a second. I recall this was going on for a couple of weeks but not when the F18's were in the air. David Fravor and his wingman were the first to be able to intercept one of the objects, the famous tic tac. Although it was actually Chad Underwood who took off just after Fravor arrived back on the carrier who captured it on his ATFLIR pod and coined the term "tic tac". Fravor told him of his encounter and told him to make sure he had a pod onboard. Below is Kevin's account of what happened. It's unedited footage from a TV documentary. Edited May 22, 20215 yr by martin-w
May 22, 20215 yr 1 hour ago, martin-w said: No, its not, and our hypothetical aliens could do both. Hyothecially: : involving or being based on a suggested idea or theory : being or involving a hypothesis : conjectural hypothetical arguments a hypothetical situation. Your hypothetical super space beings could also walk on water, feed a multitude with two loaves and seven fishes, cure cancer by touch, raise the dead, and after being in a coma be transported bodily to the mother ship. And who's to say one of them hasn't? After all, some believe the advanced technology was demonstrated over 2,000 years ago. I hope this doesn't close the thread, it's just an alternate theory. Noel The tires are worn. The shocks are shot. The steering is wobbly. But the engine still runs fine.
May 22, 20215 yr Author 1 hour ago, birdguy said: Your hypothetical super space beings OUR hypothetical space beings. We were BOTH referring to the same beings with the capability to get here, who by definition would require a technological prowess orders of magnitude ahead or ours to do so.. Edited May 22, 20215 yr by martin-w
May 22, 20215 yr 1 hour ago, martin-w said: OUR hypothetical space beings. Involving or being based on a suggested idea or theory. If I read you right you go beyond hypothetical into likely as far as the lights in the sky described by other people as being other worldly spacecraft. I am the skeptic saying it is unlikely they are other worldly spacecraft. You are saying that if there are other worldly craft roaming about the planet (likely or unlikely?) it is unlikely, nay, impossible they would ne affected by our weather like severe thunderstorms, hurricanes, tornados, severe turbulence, hail and lightning. I am saying that if there are other worldly craft roaming about the planet (unlikely) it is likely they would be affected by our weather like severe thunderstorms, hurricanes, tornados, severe turbulence, hail and lightning. I say the chances that UFOs are other worldly space craft is less than 10%. What do you say the chances are? Noel The tires are worn. The shocks are shot. The steering is wobbly. But the engine still runs fine.
May 22, 20215 yr Did somebody already quote Arthur Clarke? “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” Dugald Walker
May 22, 20215 yr Author 58 minutes ago, birdguy said: the 58 minutes ago, birdguy said: 2 hours ago, martin-w said: If I read you right you go beyond hypothetical into likely as far as the lights in the sky described by other people as being other worldly spacecraft. Wrong! Of course I don't. I've never said anything of the sort. I've actually said in this thread the possibility is small. I've also refered you to the Fermi Paradox in previous conversations. I've also put forward evidence against various UFO incidents in this very thread. Given what we know about physics and how immensely difficult it would be to get here in a reasonable time frame it has to be an unlikely prospect. 1 hour ago, birdguy said: am the skeptic saying it is unlikely they are other worldly spacecraft So am I. Read my replies. And read previous threads. Remember previous conversations when we spoke of the great filter and the Fermi Paradox. 1 hour ago, birdguy said: You are saying that if there are other worldly craft roaming about the planet (likely or unlikely?) it is unlikely, nay, impossible they would ne affected by our weather like severe thunderstorms, hurricanes, tornados, severe turbulence, hail and lightning. Yes, IF! Its hypothetical. You said you believed its feasible for lighning to bring down an alien spaceship. Now, I did not once say it was impossible, but common sense tells us that given how super advanced an alien spaceship would need to be to get to our planet, it would be crazy to think that IF they are comming here (unlikely) it wouldn't be able to resist lighning. Or have the technology to detect it and avoid it. Lighning would be child's play to a ship that could harness the equivalent of the energy of an entire sun and utilise negative energy to create something as remarkable as a bubble in spacetime. Because the aforementioned is what's required. Same for other means we can think of to get here. 1 hour ago, birdguy said: I say the chances that UFOs are other worldly space craft is less than 10%. What do you say the chances are? Way, way way less than 10%. A mere fraction of one percent. As I keep trying to get across to you, it's not possible to travel thousands of lightyears in a reasonable time frame without extremely exotic physics, extremely advanced technology. And that would obviously require an extremely advanced species that fully understood aspects of physics that we haven't even dreamt of. Those HYPOTHETICAL beings would obviously fully understand mere lightning and common weather events, and their ship, that could withstand the intense radiation that's created when a warp bubble is created, and withstand the high velocity dust particles colliding with it at light speed, or the extreme tidal forces of a worm hole... would not have an issue with mere weather on Earth, and after traversing the great void at lightspeed, just crash when they encountered our weather. Thus... the prospect, although non-zero, would have to be exceedingly small. The above, is why I don't take Roswel seriously, or guys like Bob Lazar who claimed he encountered NINE crashed flying saucers at Area 51. But.... there is a mysterious phenomonon taking place in our skies that we can't explain that should be investigated. There's nothing more I can say on this, I've explained it from numerous angles in as much detail as I can.
May 22, 20215 yr 56 minutes ago, martin-w said: Thus... the prospect, although non-zero, would have to be exceedingly small. Would it be smaller than the 1 in 14,000,000 chance of my winning the $9,000,000 lottery tonight? Dugald Walker
May 23, 20215 yr 3 hours ago, dmwalker said: Would it be smaller than the 1 in 14,000,000 chance of my winning the $9,000,000 lottery tonight? Sometimes you beat the odds. About 5 years ago I won a Toyota Camry in a drawing. But the odds were considerably less than 1 in 14,000,000. Noel The tires are worn. The shocks are shot. The steering is wobbly. But the engine still runs fine.
May 23, 20215 yr 24 minutes ago, birdguy said: Sometimes you beat the odds. About 5 years ago I won a Toyota Camry in a drawing. What good luck. The best I've done so far is $50 with odds of 1 in 1,000. Still, "Hope springs eternal in the human breast:". Dugald Walker
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