These supposedly recent revaluations are just a well orchestrated drip feed.

NASA and all the rest of them have been well aware of what’s been going off for decades, their recent  well rehearsed surprise and intrigue by these events laughable.

Just ask Gary McKinnon , but of course he’s just a paranoid compulsive liar with Asperger’s obviously.

jon b,

Just as a matter of interest, what would you do, as a commercial airline pilot, if you were cruising at 40,000 ft and you saw a UFO?

Edited June 9, 20215 yr by dmwalker

1 hour ago, jon b said:

NASA and all the rest of them have been well aware of what’s been going off for decades, their recent  well rehearsed surprise and intrigue by these events laughable.

Do you have evidence of this or is it intellectual supposition or what you want to believe?  I tend to agree with you but the surety of your statement indicates that you think you know more than we know.

Noel 

2 minutes ago, dmwalker said:

Just as a matter of interest, what would you do, as a pilot, if you were cruising at 40,000 ft and you saw a UFO?

I'd simply report it.  I wouldn't try to make a deterimnaton of what it was.

Noel

7 minutes ago, birdguy said:

I'd simply report it.  I wouldn't try to make a deterimnaton of what it was.

I'm sorry. I have made my question more specific, as I should have done in the first place.

2 hours ago, jon b said:

These supposedly recent revaluations are just a well orchestrated drip feed.

NASA and all the rest of them have been well aware of what’s been going off for decades, their recent  well rehearsed surprise and intrigue by these events laughable.

Just ask Gary McKinnon , but of course he’s just a paranoid compulsive liar with Asperger’s obviously.

 

Well we know AATIP had been actively investigating UFO' s for a long time, while government was claiming they weren't interested. And we know AATIP were updating various top brass and certain members of Congress. 

Don't believe NASA have been investigating though.

It was Elizondo leaving AATIP amd the activities of Chis Melon that seems to have forced their hand to now finally admit it, and now, the imminent report of course.

Trouble is, according to the leak, they aren't concluding anything more than they did 50 years ago.

Edited June 9, 20215 yr by martin-w

2 hours ago, birdguy said:

Do you have evidence of this or is it intellectual supposition or what you want to believe?  I tend to agree with you but the surety of your statement indicates that you think you know more than we know.

Do I know that  authorities have been  made aware of controlled ,extreme performance objects in close interaction  with civilian and military aircraft for decades ? Yes .
Do I think I know more than you do on these sort of  events ? Probably yes, but please don’t take that as me trying to be arrogant or superior in any way it’s not my intention. Am I able to justify that statement ? I can’t here I’m afraid no, so please feel free to completely disregard it.

We all may have thoughts and opinions on these things of course , and there anyone’s opinions and beliefs are all of equal value

2 hours ago, dmwalker said:

Just as a matter of interest, what would you do, as a commercial airline pilot, if you were cruising at 40,000 ft and you saw a UFO?

Capt Ray Bowyer in his account of an encounter over the Channel Islands , which was verified by his passengers, another aircraft, and primary radar returns makes the point that aircrew are obligated to report anything that may relate to  safety or infringements of air law. 
 

The majority of such events , at least until very recently do go unreported , by aircrew and indeed the general public however which is mainly due to the deliberate culture of ridicule that’s been built up over the years and promoted by mainstream media. Any reports which make the news are normally presented with the X files theme music playing and right along side an item on a small dog riding on a surfboard or other such trivia.

It’s this deliberate ,automatic  trivialisation and ridicule that I find the most annoying about this subject. As a rough figure having spoken to many aircrew about these events over the years I would put an estimate of around 15-20% of pilots have a story to tell either,  personally witnessing things or are aware of events happening to colleagues.

Of course some events may be fabricated by individuals for whatever reason, but you don’t tend to get professional civil and military aircrew making things up for formal reports.

If you’ve even spoken to anyone in person who’s witnessed these things it has a profound effect on their life and it really shouldn’t be trivialised in the way it is and they should be believed.

I’ll give just one example here and leave it at that. I  briefly shared a house with a guy back in the 90’s who was the retired chief pilot of a major British airline. Now in his 60’s he’d been flying his whole life, very experienced and very knowledgeable. He’d flown all over the world in aviation’s golden days, and he had many a story to tell which he enthusiastically recounted one night over a beer sat round the fire. For example, He had been hijacked while on the ground in Africa and forced to takeoff a grossly overweight DC8 with a gun to his head despite protesting to the hijackers that the aircraft wouldn’t get off the ground. For those interested he accelerated the DC8 clean as fast as he could down the short runway and put the flaps down at the last moment to balloon into the air ! 
He recalled many such stories with great humour, he was a lovely old fellow.It wasn’t until out of curiosity I asked him if he’d ever seen anything unusual at which point his whole demeanour changed.

He went on to tell me that in the 1960s he’d been flying across the Atlantic in a DC 4 when a large silver cigar shaped craft  with no wings, windows of engines pulled up along side them in close formation. It sat there along side them all the way across the ocean before then shooting off at an incredible speed. They reported the incident over the radio and on landing at prestwick they were met by special branch and basically interrogated. As he told the story his eyes were glassed as he stared blankly into space, he was clearly  utterly haunted by the event.  This was not a man who had been fooled by a trick of the light or an illusion, they all knew exactly what they’d seen.

2 hours ago, martin-w said:

Well we know AATIP had been actively investigating UFO' s for a long time, while government was claiming they weren't interested. And we know AATIP were updating various top brass and certain members of Congress. 

Don't believe NASA have been investigating though

Yes, reports have been going in from credible aircrew witnesses for decades,since the Second World War at least. These have indeed been investigated and taken seriously by authorities and crews have been told to forget what they’ve seen and the reports have never been mentioned in public.
 

I obviously don’t know if NASA have investigated like you say maybe not, but the McKinnon incident which I personally believe would suggest they were aware.

This is not something new, and this  sudden pretend interest and apparent  ignorance by the world’s government authorities is so ridiculous it’s almost amusing. 

4 of the top behaviour experts in the world analysing the behaviour of presidents and government officials talking about UFO's.

 

 

Mick West has interesting things to say about the object "alleged" to enter the water. Basically it looks like an aircraft at extreme range that passes over the horizon. Doesn't drop in the water at all.

 

 

Couple of thoughts from left-field, where I have apparently taken up permanent residence in my dotage. Let's work it from least likely to most likely (in my opinion, of course).

Carl Jung talked about UFOs as a modern version of visions people of other times would have described in terms with which they were familiar: persons, lights, flames, swords, etc. He believed in a collective unconscious from which themes common to human experience can manifest in recognizable ways. On the other hand, we don't have military video of angels or the Anima. A few have associated UFOs with demonic activity. Jung might have shrugged and found no essential disagreement, but in the sense the UFO-Devil folks are meaning, I doubt it. And we don't have military video of devils, either. Unless devils can appear on video, So, while I think some reports are probably explained by psychology, the apparently increasing body of physical evidence makes me think maybe there's something natural to some of them, i.e. technology, either of this world or another.

The problem with that is trying to figure out what the heck the aliens are up to by using an assessment of motives based on human experience, which may have nothing to do with alien psychology. Maybe they're just messing with us. And as for China or Russia, I don't think so for a lot of reasons. The biggest is this isn't new. It goes back to WWII and long before. (And for that matter, there were radar returns confirming visual sightings over Washington D.C. in the famous Saucer Invasion of 1952.) For another, we CAN make assumptions about the way other humans behave and can probably narrow what's possible given the current state of research in physics and technology. None of it adds up to China or Russia to me.

Another possible explanation is that this does represent human technology, just experimental and highly classified. There is plenty of precedence for this. In other words, either America (best guess) or (maybe) China or Russia. It's possible (even likely) more than one country is working on the same developments--if that's what they are. Then again, while we can at least imagine some Top Secret program coming up with this sort of thing now, we still come back to the long, long history.

Okay, this last one is going to sound weird, but I think it provides at least a partial explanation. Given the U.S. history of MK-ULTRA and other programs, you don't have to be a conspiracy nut to consider a PSYOP campaign. What makes this seem more plausible to me is that this whole "UFO Revelation" appears to be managed with a finesse that would make Sally Rand envious. We're given just enough--by the government (hmm)--to keep us tantalized, but not enough to satisfy us. I can think of several reasons why the American government would want to do this. To psych out possible opponents, causing them to waste resources trying to catch up with non-existent military technology. (See Reagan's "Star Wars".) To distract the American public at a moment when domestic tensions are high. This might even involve some tech, but also play on the underground current of UFO culture that has existed since the 1950s. In fact, it could simply be 100% opportunistic. The government might be giving a public wink while no one on the inside really has a clue. Of all the explanations, I find the PSYOP one most appealing, but acknowledge I don't have sufficient evidence to do more than guess.

Finally, with all due respect to Martin-W (who lives in a part of the U.S. which is constantly directing tornadoes in my direction) my professional opinion of body language reading is that it is junk science. Now "demeanor" has always properly been a traditional element of credibility assessment in the law. Yes, a lot of the time you can pick up cues when people are lying. But efforts to turn this into reliable science (e.g. the Reid Technique of interrogation taught in the U.S.) have been failures. Furthermore, some people are very good liars, while some always look like they're lying even when telling the truth. And, if there were a PSYOP explanation, it's not unimaginable that select witnesses could be taught how to fool body language "experts."

In fact, that was mostly what MK-ULTRA was about. The U.S. has been working on that sort of thing for a very long time.

But what are they? I don't know. What I suspect is that whatever is going on is being used.

11 minutes ago, Tim_Capps said:

On the other hand, we don't have military video of angels or the Anima. A few have associated UFOs with demonic activity. Jung might shrug and found no essential disagreement, but in the sense the UFO-Devil folks are meaning, I doubt it. And we don't have military video of devils, either. Unless devils can appear on video, So, while I think some reports are probably explained by psychology, the apparently increasing body of physical evidence makes me think maybe there's something natural to some of them, i.e. technology, either of this world or another.

Unless we could actually demonstrate what a devil or angel would like on video, presuming we could even define what a devil or angel is or is not, and assuming there was such a thing anyway, then we're not really in a position to say that UFO which looks like a cliche 'flying saucer' or whatever, is or is not a devil, nor for that matter able to say that we don't have a devil on video either. People tend to define things based on what they know of at the time of course; someone in medieval times who saw a 'flying saucer' would not be suggesting it was a Chinese secret aircraft or a CIA drone, or calling it a flying saucer, because these concepts were unknown to them regardless of what the thing looked like, or what they thought it looked like, and it was in a time where it was generally accepted that there were indeed such things as ghosts, angels, demons, an afterlife and so on, for a variety of reasons, not least of which some were political, so this would naturally be the kind of thing they would fall back on for a suggestion of a possible explanation.

Nowadays we have plenty of fictional SF movies, books etc, and of course the existence of aeroplanes, to the point where few, if any, people are alive who were around before aeroplanes were a thing. This provides enough contemporary inspiration for people to lump witnessing what they assume was some kind of controlled craft into the box of it being some kind of aeroplane or spacecraft. But since they don't actually know what a lot of those things are, they don't then by definition know that their alien flying saucer which they saw, or at least thought they saw, is not an incubi, or a witch manifestation or whatever. Similarly, they don't know if it is a human travelling back in time, or some other freaky possibility. The fact that people jump to the suggestion that it was some kind of spacecraft or advanced aeroplane, rather than saying it was a demon, has more to do with what they do know and are familiar with, than what they don't know anything of.

It's frustrating to not know what something is of course, but sometimes the only honest answer is to say: 'I don't know'. Now whether governments don't know either is another matter, but until such time as we could be certain they genuinely were revealing all, we're unlikely to know whether these things actually are known or not. It's fun to speculate on all this, but in the end we just have to say that we don't know what they are and unless something changes, then that is likely to remain the case.

 

2 hours ago, Tim_Capps said:

the apparently increasing body of physical evidence makes me think maybe there's something natural to some of them, i.e. technology, either of this world or another.

 

I wouldn't regard a craft from another world as natural. Natural would be explainable as human vehicles, weather phenomona etc. We know that the vast majority of UFO reports are explainable as natural phenomena. It's the 3 or 4% that are hard to explain. 

"Ican think of several reasons why the American government would want to do this. To psych out possible opponents, causing them to waste resources trying to catch up with non-existent military technology. "

Yep, its a possibility. Especially if we consider the US Navy patents that were applied for. A vehicle that does everything the famous tic tac does.

"Finally, with all due respect to Martin-W (who lives in a part of the U.S. which is constantly directing tornadoes in my direction) my professional opinion of body language reading is that it is junk science"

 

There's an element of truth in those words Tim. But perhaps not that simple. Not as simple as branding all of it junk science. When these guys analyse people I find a lot of it aparently valid, it's just "some" of the things they claim that are a bit dubious. But I think the overall conclusions drawn probably have some merit.

Your tornadoes aren't my fault Tim. I live in The Channel Islands, British Isles.

Edited June 10, 20215 yr by martin-w

5 hours ago, martin-w said:

 

Your tornadoes aren't my fault Tim. I live in The Channel Islands, British Isles.

Wow. I can't even figure out why tornadoes keep coming much less UFOs. I'm glad you're not to blame, though, because I like you and was a bit hurt. I meant "natural" as opposed to "preternatural," or "supernatural," like demons. Believe it or not I wrote a novel about demons attempting a "friendly" takeover in 1952 based after they learned of the 1951 move The Day the Earth Stood Still. It was planned as a prequel to Judging Angels, the only part that ever got picked up by a publisher, (Out of print at, erm... the moment.) I did a lot of research on the the topic, and if you think UFOs are big now, they were headlines in the Washington Post and other major newspapers that summer. I don't think that one has ever been adequately explained, either.

11 hours ago, Tim_Capps said:

I did a lot of research on the the topic, and if you think UFOs are big now, they were headlines in the Washington Post and other major newspapers that summer. I don't think that one has ever been adequately explained, either.

 

Oh god yes, the Washington UFO flap was astonishing. Multiple sightings over Washington, multiple jets in the air trying to intercept them. The UFO's would zoom away at high speed as soon as the jets got close. Amazing stuff. 

You should watch the documentary The Phenomenon. Its on Amazon Prime. About 4 quid to buy. I watched it last night, its very good. 

 

Edited June 11, 20215 yr by martin-w

Any of you who are truly interested in UFOs come to Roswell New Mexico and visit the IFO Museum and Research Center.

The museum is the ground floor of a theater.  Pictures and artifacts not only of the Roswell incident but of many other incidents like the one in Socorro where a policeman claims he saw a UFO on the ground.

 https://www.socorronm.org/attractions/socorro-landing-a-ufo-story/

The upper level of the museum is a research library full of books, magazine articles and tapes of the UFO phenomenon and a curator.

It's very interesting but hasn't convinced me they are beings from outer space.  But then I am very skeptical of it all until some hard evidence surfaces.

Noel