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[Guest dwaohio]

For the most part, these people have>expectations that products like these are perfect, have no>bugs, and they wonder why things are not simpler. Every thing>in the computer industry these days is complicated and not>every system that runs these products is going to perform as>well as your own personal expectations.....This statement bothers me. How do you want to consumer to know if it will or won't work with there system. If your like Flight1 than you buy it, try it and if it odes not work right you return it. But most companies don't have this policy and when you buy it you own it. I think more companies should use Flight1's return model. If like you said you can not tell if it will work or not. I should not have a disk drive full of software that does not work and paid for.

[Guest PowderBlue]

OMG it's happening in my post, While all of you come up with some valid points why are we bashing each other and getting hostile with words and harsh phrases? We can mold our community and thus far we have molded it into posts such as these on the forums. I'm not sying any of you are out for blood and I feel the passion in these posts. Its like today when I read about Airnavs AI program for 60 bucks reoccuring every 6 months. OM friggin Gosh. I could see paying that if we had the most realistic flight sim with no issues but for the garbage that is out there now its a joke. Its like legal rape. Notice how the prices of products are going up also? ANd the quality is down? Notice how they try to come up with new ways to buy such as blocks so as to cofuse us? We have made it this way! Why? Because we see this nice pic of an A/C on a website, we've been waiting for something like that so we buy it and we buy it right away. And even if the last release was bad we will buy the next one. I know for sure that some of you will disagree but I think for the most part that alot of us are not patient and don't do our research before buying an aircraft. I use to spontaneously buy Aircraft which I no longer do because I got burned one to many times. Once again my main theory behind this post is it seems over the years and dealing with add on developers that we have become increasingly more hostile towards them and ourselves and that there are more beneficial and impacting ways to deal with our issues rather then ruin a forum we love.

[Mike T 208]

Then I think that we are 100% agreed as all of your points are meritous and valid. Were DOES a valid complaint start?I, for one, think one's got to pick one's battles. Complaning about everything will not only take up all one's time, but make life an absolute misery! I'm certain the average person can find no less than a hundred things to complain about each day.What I do believe is that this Airbus thing is no big deal by itself. Okay, another release flubbed up, its not the first and it won't be the last...big deal.HOWEVER, it seems that a bunch of little things like this have simply added up over time. Sure you've always got the "EVERYTHING SUCKS" group, but this time, you've got a lot of very respected members of the community up in arms.I believe its like "death by a thousand cuts", no one cut is really that big of a deal, but add them all up and that's all she wrote. The Wilco / Feelthere debacle is simply the thousanth cut.

[Guest Len]

Mike T. hits it again. Home run.

[remilton 66]

The lack of patience in buying is even worse in the game market. With all the kids (young and old) pre-ordering games sight unseen. People fall all over themselves to spend there money just because the game looks cool, or promises better weapons and more realistic graphics. Then when the game is released, many-times it is a bug ridden mess. Sometimes it gets mostly fixed in a patch and sometimes not.The point is, if we were a little less willing to part quickly with our money the developers might be more motivated to give us our moneys worth.Ron

[MarkRey 16]

Jason,My opinion - what Mike has said, nothing to add except:One thing I would encourage us to do is simply be more observant. I'm no Einstein yet even I knew the Wilco/FT package was 'off', just from Wilco's ads and a little common sense.You're telling me that you(Wilco), with your less than stellar release record have got the entire A32x family perfectly simulated and ready to go faaar sooner than the best in the business can produce even one variant with reasonable fidelity?? The cynic in me thought not, and he was right.Right along with developer accountability I say caveat emptor and save yourself the aggravation.regards,Markhttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/a320/custbanner2.jpg

[Guest kdundon]

Well put Mike. My sentiments exactly. I have been doing this for 18 years and agree with your comments in regards to the good and the not so good companies. I agree that 6 months for a fuel planner is too long. I for one have spent my last money on the PSS site. PMDG on the other hand will probably get alot more of my money but oh is it worth it. Ken

[aerdt 0]

Yep, you took the words right out of my mouth again.It's the sum of everything combined that at times leads to an outburst of frustration. I get it that people are upset, I really do. But it's also easy to get all wound up in a collective, like this public forum. That's what makes riots start and that is never a good thing. Fortunately, it's all virtual ;)Pat

[Mike T 208]

Jason:How right you are. I'm thoroughly guilty of not thinking through that train of thought to its most logical conclusion. Brilliant.I most certainly have learned a lesson from these series of fiasco's, from FSX through the A320. For me, I'm applying FAA security screening rules to my future FS purchases:> Flight1, PMDG, LDS, et al get a cursory baggage screening in the x-ray machine and will be waived through without much hassle.> All others, get a full cavity search. :-lol

[Guest PowderBlue]

Remilton, mark and mike , Ya hit it on the head. And we are all guilty. You can see that we are when companies want to take a 60 dollar sim and charge 6 dollars for an add on every 6 months. I mean honestly who do they thing we are or what do they think were looking for. The funny thing is , is look all around this forum and the sim community and you can see exactly what we are talking about everywhere.

[Mike_CFII_MEL 789]

Hi Mike,Wow, I just got done reading your statement. If I didn't know any better, I would have thought I wrote it myself. I agree with you 100%. I have spent "THOUSANDS" of dollars within the confines of Flight Simulation and I must tell you, "I AM TIRED OF BEING RIPPED OFF". I am so tired of it, I have included a Companies I Will No Longer Do Business With in my sig.Maybe everyone who is

[fbass 1]

Software development and BETA testing are highly technical and precise endeavors. Once a developer releases a product to the user community it is often assumed by the user that it is perfect and will deliver 100% of features and meet 100% of user expectations. So, I ask you just how reasonable is that assumption given software is developed and tested by humans.Users who interact with developers, to better understand a product's operation or to solve technical issues associated with bugs or performance, in a non-emotional manner will find developer responses are much more helpful and often contain a usuable solution to issues. Think how you would react if someone rushed up to you and started yelling, cussing, crying, moaning, groaning, or whining about something you built. In the same vein, they used Internet forums to bash you about the head and shoulders. What's really bad is the user who goes about these bashing exercises and you (the developer) find out that if they had read the manual they wouldn't have had the problem in the first place. My complaint is not with this group. My complaint is with all the users who think vendors exist only to meet their own personal expectations or who think that life somehow owes them something just because they reside on this planet. If people in this group want a good dose of reality, they should develop a piece of software and throw it out to the marketplace. Or (this might be easier) try asking ANY developer in this FS environment what they think of users who attempt this emotional methodology to get what they want.The bottom line - people do the best that they can so give them a break. There is no invisible conspiracy where developers are intentionally trying to screw the user. Developers have enough common sense to know that they will be out of business in short order if their products don't meet quality standards. Interact with developers in a calm manner. That doesn't mean you don't point out the problems. It means you leave out the emotional BS regardless of how frustrated you are.Oh, and to the person who took it upon himself to launch a personal attack on me by calling me names - it just proves my point that there are far too many childish individuals roaming the FS Internet forums.fb

[Scott434 12]

fb,You make very little sense. Did you not read, understand or learn anything from this thread? No I guess not. Your last line kind of sums it up really. Mike_CFII,I like your idea of using your signature to publicize products that are clearly bogus. I think we should also include a line of products we use that are very good and which we can recommend. In both cases we should include a short description of what it is we do or do not like. That way, others can judge whether or not it is important to themselves.I don

[Guest lalo lolo1]

Oh! Good! Is not locked yet, I can reply, lol.Guys, although I agree about complaining, maybe you should be more cautious when you get the CC out of your pockets.I never got the CS757...and I love 757s, but until last block is released is nothing but just promises, and from CS!!!About PSS. What is so important about a fuel planner? That they promised it? Well I won't spill one tear for that fuel planner. I do like PSS, even with its bugs. It is much better than any other things we can get. Or will you say that you prefer the Feelthere 777, lol, or maybe the CS757, jaja.About the A320. Feelthere will come up with a patch. 99.999999% sure of that. Their 737 series is wonderful, when at the beginning was a bag of bugs. Nonetheless SPs did a lot. Is it perfect? not even close, but totally enjoyable. My bet the A320 will be the same after a couple of patches. Here the problem is Wilco, which is a bad company. They don't even have decent servers and you have to wait for the download longer than I wait when I have a piece of hardware sent via Fedex.Enjoy FS and addons, just be cautious with what you buy, or keep in mind new products bring bugs with them. Wait until a SP addresses them, or live with what you get until a SP is released.Leo

[brynjames 0]

I've just spent a few days looking through the Wilco FT Airbus forum and looking at the manual. The contributor list shows these aren't some cowboys, but includes many very well respected freeware and payware designers. Also encouraging is the fact that at least one of the designers is there on the forum responding to customers' problem reports on a daily basis, and there is an agreed bug list at the top of the forum, mostly shown as "fixed" and to be issued in the upcomming patch. I'm not ready to buy yet - not until I can get FSX working a lot better, and I'm still having too much fun with the old PSS A320 (yes! PSS!) - but the customer support looks reasonable to me. I am also encouraged by the fact that my Wilco PIC737 works with the GoFlight MCP-Pro - one of the few add-ons to offer that functionality, and this was added at no extra cost.Got to remember that it took PMDG more than one slice of the cake to get it right - and aren't they going to charge for the GoFlight update? :)--Bryn