Don’t forget :  MS/Asobo also stated in the beginning that in the future there would be not only free updates but also payware updates.

If they are going to keep MSFS alive for 10 years then they need to make cash also in the next 9 years.

LM is updating P3D with full versions every 2 years and in between free updates.

If MSFS would use a simular strategy we might have MSFS around for 10 years or even longer.

Imho they want the same version for XBox and PC but the PC will have more features which might be hidden for the XBox ( higher LOD, more detail ) . In that way they don’t need to develop 2 verslons. A bit like the 3 different MSFS versions ( standard for the XBox with medium features and Premium versions for the PC ).

Just my 2 cents …

 

 

2 hours ago, erick said:

You seem like like a rational person and I appreciate your well constructed statement... but I respectfully disagree with you. I mean no offense at all, I just completely disagree.

If all of what you are saying was clearly stated by Microsoft and Asobo in the beginning, I would not be nearly as upset as I am. If they did, then I certainly missed it. (it is possible as enthusiasm and older age could have blurred my understanding and expectations of what I was being sold! haha!)

Without rambling on and on. We were sold a product and a vision that was presented in a certain way directly to the people that you say are a small subset. If it had been mainly advertised/marketed in the mainstream AAA gaming forums and not in our little world then I would probably have steered away. It was actually marketed directly to me. Or at least it seemed so. So myself and many other (niche hardcore) users bought into it. We were all skeptical at first, but as the builds began to come out, I think I can speak for many of us, we were very impressed! Many of us even upgraded our rigs specifically for this developing title. There was direct communication with the developers. Yes there were bugs, but there was also a lot of progress.

Then it was officially released and I, personally, have seen more backward steps than forward steps ever since. With this latest update ...well, lets just say I'm not one of the positive ones.

I genuinely understand your statements about profit/margins/shareholders and expanding the user base. I just really didn't think MSFS was going to be ..that. Probably because the Dev's have been telling me the opposite of that since the beginning! That's why I'm unhappy about this turn of events! Will all of this xbox stuff benefit us in the long run... hopefully, maybe, probably. Is that what I paid for a year ago? NO!

Cheers

You always welcome to disagree! I'm all for sensible debate, there is nothing wrong with hashing out differences in opinion. Ill try and maybe put some light onto what you said.

I agree that the goalposts were moved and indeed it was touted as "this new platform for hardcore simmers" and I too was under the assumption it was PC only, maybe I missed something. I too upgraded my entire rig just for this so I'm in that boat too. 

Marketing these days I personally think is very disingenuous, everything is touted as the next best thing since sliced bread so I never really buy into the whole hype fully, in an age where people are throwaway consumers, things are very different to how they used to be and maybe not for the best! Its really easy to drive hype through social media and whip up an excitement frenzy, and I think this is exactly what has happened here, people got so excited and expectations missed the mark and like you said have gone backwards a little and goalposts moved and some people feel betrayed or mislead, and that's understandable.

As I see it, even if its been dumbed down for more casual users, we still have a world full of amazing airports, decent planes, a phenomenal weather engine and complete world coverage of ortho, this is the first sim I've ever flown where I have literally looked out the window and though, my god this is amazing. It took years for FS9 and FSX to thrive into the platforms they did, and it would be easy to stomp my feet and have the I want it now attitude, ill persist with what they have given me and ill wait it out, I do have faith that it will turn into the sim we all want, whether that be from Asobo or from devs in the future.

Time will indeed tell if it was the right strategy to sacrifice things for Xbox users and a broader userbase, and I just hope the CTDs and other bugs do get sorted so people can enjoy what we have right now without issues, because I accept that, without a stable sim, its no good to anyone. Luckily my version is stable and I'm not experiencing any of the issues other people are having so I consider myself lucky in that respect.

3 hours ago, erick said:

You seem like like a rational person and I appreciate your well constructed statement... but I respectfully disagree with you. I mean no offense at all, I just completely disagree.

If all of what you are saying was clearly stated by Microsoft and Asobo in the beginning, I would not be nearly as upset as I am. If they did, then I certainly missed it. (it is possible as enthusiasm and older age could have blurred my understanding and expectations of what I was being sold! haha!)

Without rambling on and on. We were sold a product and a vision that was presented in a certain way directly to the people that you say are a small subset. If it had been mainly advertised/marketed in the mainstream AAA gaming forums and not in our little world then I would probably have steered away. It was actually marketed directly to me. Or at least it seemed so. So myself and many other (niche hardcore) users bought into it. We were all skeptical at first, but as the builds began to come out, I think I can speak for many of us, we were very impressed! Many of us even upgraded our rigs specifically for this developing title. There was direct communication with the developers. Yes there were bugs, but there was also a lot of progress.

Then it was officially released and I, personally, have seen more backward steps than forward steps ever since. With this latest update ...well, lets just say I'm not one of the positive ones.

I genuinely understand your statements about profit/margins/shareholders and expanding the user base. I just really didn't think MSFS was going to be ..that. Probably because the Dev's have been telling me the opposite of that since the beginning! That's why I'm unhappy about this turn of events! Will all of this xbox stuff benefit us in the long run... hopefully, maybe, probably. Is that what I paid for a year ago? NO!

Cheers

I am a little confused here as one of the main announcements for this product was not at a flightsim expo in 2019 but at the Xbox E3 2019 press conference.  There they clearly stated that it would be coming for both PC and Xbox and would be part of the Xbox Gamepass.

From my  point of view, this has been listed as an Xbox release since the very first announcement by M/S.

Graham

52 minutes ago, Spam3d said:

You always welcome to disagree! I'm all for sensible debate, there is nothing wrong with hashing out differences in opinion. Ill try and maybe put some light onto what you said.

I agree that the goalposts were moved and indeed it was touted as "this new platform for hardcore simmers" and I too was under the assumption it was PC only, maybe I missed something. I too upgraded my entire rig just for this so I'm in that boat too. 

Marketing these days I personally think is very disingenuous, everything is touted as the next best thing since sliced bread so I never really buy into the whole hype fully, in an age where people are throwaway consumers, things are very different to how they used to be and maybe not for the best! Its really easy to drive hype through social media and whip up an excitement frenzy, and I think this is exactly what has happened here, people got so excited and expectations missed the mark and like you said have gone backwards a little and goalposts moved and some people feel betrayed or mislead, and that's understandable.

As I see it, even if its been dumbed down for more casual users, we still have a world full of amazing airports, decent planes, a phenomenal weather engine and complete world coverage of ortho, this is the first sim I've ever flown where I have literally looked out the window and though, my god this is amazing. It took years for FS9 and FSX to thrive into the platforms they did, and it would be easy to stomp my feet and have the I want it now attitude, ill persist with what they have given me and ill wait it out, I do have faith that it will turn into the sim we all want, whether that be from Asobo or from devs in the future.

Time will indeed tell if it was the right strategy to sacrifice things for Xbox users and a broader userbase, and I just hope the CTDs and other bugs do get sorted so people can enjoy what we have right now without issues, because I accept that, without a stable sim, its no good to anyone. Luckily my version is stable and I'm not experiencing any of the issues other people are having so I consider myself lucky in that respect.

Thanks again for being calm and rational. I always get a bit apprehensive disagreeing with someone on this forum (any forum for that matter!). Regarding your comments. You are far more forgiving than I am for something that is a professional product that costs money. The phrase "well at least we still have..." is not something I would ever say about anything I bought brand new (even software!!). Unless I purchased something used from the internet, then maybe I could see saying that. Maybe!

I do agree about the "having faith that it will turn into the sim we all want". I really, really want this to succeed. Just like you, I looked out the window during my first flight and thought "holy smokes". I was also very understanding during the development process when bugs and mistakes happened. Heck, the first Ms flight simulator is the reason I even got into high performance computers in the first place. I even went on to get my pilots license IRL because of this software. I hold it very close to my heart and for that reason I am super invested in this next iteration of my beloved flight sim. That investment hasn't caused me to be more critical, if anything its caused me to be more supportive and understanding. However, I'm sitting here feeling like I've been lied to. I have seen what this piece of software is capable of and I want it back. Badly!!

I didn't know this was a time restricted experience, but that's what it feels like right now. In the middle of this roller coaster ride, someone turned down the speed dramatically. I just could never look at the coaster operator and say "well at least we are still click clacking along the tracks" and think to myself, well he may turn it back up or he may just say "since the smaller kids are allowed to ride now, this is the new top speed". Not cool in my books! 

btw- sorry about the stupid analogy, its the first thing that came to my mind! haha!

Take care and thanks again

18 minutes ago, Moria15 said:

I am a little confused here as one of the main announcements for this product was not at a flightsim expo in 2019 but at the Xbox E3 2019 press conference.  There they clearly stated that it would be coming for both PC and Xbox and would be part of the Xbox Gamepass.

From my  point of view, this has been listed as an Xbox release since the very first announcement by M/S.

Graham

You are correct about that announcement at Xbox E3 2019. Which is the reason I didn't really even bat an eye at first. I thought it would be exactly what it sounded and looked like. A console game. I ignored it. Then the developers started popping up in the more "enthusiast" type websites and starting their own website outlining the development of a true hardcore simulator for the enthusiast crowd. Yes it would be in conjunction with an Xbox release but with zero compromises and an even a better pc experience due to the technology and efficiency involved in developing such a title. Flash forward to SU5... and ya I'm feeling a pretty sour at the moment. Hence my long rant! 

7 minutes ago, erick said:

I do agree about the "having faith that it will turn into the sim we all want". I really, really want this to succeed.

This is the key point after all.

Cheers

bs

Edited August 2, 20214 yr by bean_sprout

On 8/1/2021 at 1:42 PM, mpo910 said:

With one difference......we had more LOD in FSX 😉

Now I will wait till SU6 is out.....than my VRAM will be back at 16GB to utilize my 3090 GPU and when they stop streaming in about 8 years....terrain....I will have less blurry and popping autogen....

Welcome to MSFS Xbox targets......we simmers aren't the target market....for the time being at least not.

Ironie off

Cheers Marcus

Haha!! Good luck with that. Have it. You didn't need some silly rant to sign off from this forum. MSFS is LEAPS and BOUNDS better than FSX. I know, because I only used FSX for 10 years before switching over. I'll never open FSX again. 

As for Microsoft and Asobo ditching us simmers, thats just complete nonsense. From the very beginning they've stated so, and they haven't done anything since then to prove otherwise. So what, one update wasn't good FOR SOME. For me, it was great. That doesn't mean they're done with serious simmers. 

Go rant on the FSX forum. Your new home.

1 hour ago, GSalden said:

Don’t forget :  MS/Asobo also stated in the beginning that in the future there would be not only free updates but also payware updates.

If they are going to keep MSFS alive for 10 years then they need to make cash also in the next 9 years.

LM is updating P3D with full versions every 2 years and in between free updates.

If MSFS would use a simular strategy we might have MSFS around for 10 years or even longer.

Imho they want the same version for XBox and PC but the PC will have more features which might be hidden for the XBox ( higher LOD, more detail ) . In that way they don’t need to develop 2 verslons. A bit like the 3 different MSFS versions ( standard for the XBox with medium features and Premium versions for the PC ).

Just my 2 cents …

 

 

"If they are going to keep MSFS alive for 10 years then they need to make cash also in the next 9 years."

The bills are already largely paid and they don't need to charge anything else to keep MSFS going for 20 years... Thanks to its strategy MSFS is an unprecedented commercial success from which we will benefit from the evolutions.

They are much smarter than the XP & P3D business plan.They won't let themselves die stupidly.

P3D and XP won money but the little pink pig will finish his life with a flat stomach, and it's not the few puddles on the tarmac and the light effects that will change anything.

The MSFS steamroller is currently Run-in period.

 

5 minutes ago, erick said:

You are correct about that announcement at Xbox E3 2019. Which is the reason I didn't really even bat an eye at first. I thought it would be exactly what it sounded and looked like. A console game. I ignored it. Then the developers started popping up in the more "enthusiast" type websites and starting their own website outlining the development of a true hardcore simulator for the enthusiast crowd. Yes it would be in conjunction with an Xbox release but with zero compromises and an even a better pc experience due to the technology and efficiency involved in developing such a title. Flash forward to SU5... and ya I'm feeling a pretty sour at the moment. Hence my long rant! 

I get your rant and I am sympathetic.  However, what I can say is that my PC is currently outperforming my son's Xbox version in quality by a fair amount.  My son wanted his own FlightSim and got a new XBox as a birthday present, so I bought him the XBox version to go with it.    If I am using my PC version I only have to turn a little bit to see his XBox version and there really is a distinct diffference between the two...  same screens, pretty much same everything except he is currently using an XBox controller and I have my full set of yoke, throttle and rudder pedals.   My PC running on full ULTRA is deffinately outperforming his XBox in quality, clarity and speed..  b ut as you can see from my sig.. I would also be hacked off if it wasn't 🙂

I suspect the reason the MS teams started populating the Flight Sim forums was more to get a solid group of Alpha and Beta testers, rather than to imply that the PC version would be the prime solution, however, I am also sure that having seen the way some people read one thing then say another that it could be swiftly changed in transmission.  I am not accusing you of this in any way, just that this is the way forums tend to act... I mean there are already posts on the offial forum screaming that there was no DX12 release for PC in SU5 which was prmised multiple times, when it was always said that DX12 for PC would follow later 🙂

Anyhoo.. as they say in Canada, hopefully this is just a small blip in the progress.  Personally I am lucky in that once again.. no issues from the update that really concern me apart from the overall lighting is a bit vicious when flying under the clouds now.. but I am sure that will be tweaked soon.

Regards and have a virtual beer on me..

Graham

"what I can say is that my PC is currently outperforming my son's Xbox version in quality by a fair amount.  My son wanted his own FlightSim and got a new XBox as a birthday present, so I bought him the XBox version to go with it.    If I am using my PC version I only have to turn a little bit to see his XBox version and there really is a distinct diffference between the two."

Are you part of the dinosaur world?

Xbox Series S:

 

 

Xbox Series X:

 

 

8 hours ago, filou said:

P3D and XP won money but the little pink pig will finish his life with a flat stomach

Oh filou, it’s not just in pictures that your expressions delight! You are to the flight-sim community what Eric Cantona was to the world of English football.

Makes me wish I’d kept up my French beyond high school so I could reply in kind.

PC can't do this:

 

On 8/1/2021 at 3:55 PM, Tuskin38 said:

Freaking is a probably being used as a substitute for the F-Word.

All of this is bull.

They hired Working Title to help improve the sim, and implement their Garmin stuff once it's ready. Why would they do that if they didn't care?

They improve the SDK with every update.

Jorg has meetings with Kaiii from AIG once and a while. They want to AI traffic to work, it's just not a priority at the moment.

That guy is a whiner troll ignore him.