Well, rudder control is important, pedals are not. I fly with twisting joysticks for decades now and this works very well even on the Corsair doing a crosswind takeoff or landing.

12 hours ago, Doug47 said:

Not many threads back I was being ridiculed saying Xbox controls are for gamers and not realistic. I recall everybody was saying no, and like the airbus etc etc etc, the Xbox controller is a genuine flight control mechanism. 

Now you’re all saying it’s not? 

Nah, I think joypad is a pretty good controller overall. The only thing I don't like about using one of those is that the throttle can't be let go of. Other than that they are great, especially for choppers.

7 hours ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

Types of flying where good rudder control makes a difference

• rotary wing
• military sims for marksmanship and also putting off the enemies aim
• anywhere you need really crisp turns initiated with rudder such as canyon runs or scud running in cities
• aircraft prone to excess adverse yaw
• actual aerobatics (as opposed to calling an aileron roll a barrel roll and showing off in multiplayer streams flying upside in front of the streamer)
• any aircraft that mushes when trying to turn without rudder such as the Aerolite 103 or the Bleriot
• any aircraft with unpleasant takeoff in game such as the Carenado YMF5
• max demonstrated crosswind landings

You forgot simulating actual flying.....

On 8/10/2021 at 3:09 PM, Doug47 said:

I’ve never flown in any sim with rudder pedals. The twist grip on some joy sticks is sufficient as is the key board > left / right. 

Gotcha. Twist grip makes sense. I just thought you had no way of manipulating the rudder in flight.

I have TM pedals and can't imagine sim flying without them. But I'm also a pilot IRL so it might just be inherent to my using the real things. No way could I get used to twisting a joystick grip to replicate what my feet are trained to do.

22 minutes ago, Bartolet7 said:

I have TM pedals and can't imagine sim flying without them. But I'm also a pilot IRL so it might just be inherent to my using the real things. No way could I get used to twisting a joystick grip to replicate what my feet are trained to do.

In my experience (Logitech 3D stick) the problem with a twist grip is it’s very hard to keep rudder control independent of ailerons and elevators. Better than nothing, though, and obviously much better than the keyboard, which is near-useless for rudder control.

1 hour ago, FlyingInACessna said:

Gotcha. Twist grip makes sense. I just thought you had no way of manipulating the rudder in flight.

IMO, twist grip for rudder input makes sense only if realism is low priority - there were no "twist grips" in real airplanes I've encountered.

As to the question of "need", it's gets down to a personal choice.  Someone already posted that as a pilot IRL, feet are for rudder pedals.  No pedals, and realism takes a nose dive.

On 8/10/2021 at 11:59 AM, FlyingInACessna said:

...how could you fly without rudder pedals? 

I've done it for going on 30 years now and enjoy the heck out of it, that is flying w/o rudder pedals--I prefer letting my feet stretch out w/ nothing in the way!  I am fully aware I'm missing that part of flying but as I'll never to a real world pilot I couldn't care less.  I ride a 2016 BMW R1200RT to meet my operating real world flying needs.   I affectionally refer to her as my Dreamliner:

 

 

8 hours ago, Noel said:

I ride a 2016 BMW R1200RT to meet my operating real world flying needs.   I affectionally refer to her as my Dreamliner

Ouch.  Someone HAD to bring motorcycles into the discussion.  I will reply in kind.

I've been on scooters/bikes for 54 years now, scooters, because that's mostly what we rode as youngsters back then, because there weren't any mid-level machines around.  It was scooters, or a Harley, and at age 13, Harleys weren't an option.  But over all those years, I've owned dozens of bikes.  Current ride is a 2004 Goldwing I bought new in that year.

What's the relevance?  Simply that the BMW K1200LT I bought new several years ago was absolutely the most HORRID motorcycle I've ever owned (concurrently with my 'Wing).  It was problematic from day 1, required warranteed parts replacement direct from Germany, since none were available in the US, and ultimately, I returned it to the selling dealer after only 6 months' ownership, for consignment resale.  I couldn't stand the thing, with its poor balance and lack of parts support.  I've never understood how BMW got it's reputation for quality motorcycles.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program....

Sorry, this just demanded a response.

1 minute ago, elcaro said:

I've never understood how BMW got it's reputation for quality motorcycles.

Wow, one whole model and you've based your conclusion on that.  Mine is only a little deeper as I've now owned two BMW.  My '16 RT with 49K miles I bought new has been 100% flawless--absolutely awesome sport-tourer equally adept in the twisties and the interstate and a total joy to own and ride.  I did 10K miles on it 3 months after I bought it was fabulous across the US and back up thru Canada.  The other BMW I bought to return to riding after a 28y hiatus was a '13 F800GT, used w/ 3K miles and I put 23K miles on it in 2y--absolutely flawless as well.  You'll find huge owner satisfaction amongst the past 7y in all models, with some recurrent problems on a few models prior to that for a few years, and earlier models indeed established their reputation for solid reliable bikes.

On 8/10/2021 at 1:40 PM, 177B said:

I have the pretty expensive Thrustmaster TPR pedals, and I love those.

I have retired my Saiteks, they just wore out, I rebuilt them twice.

I also have a pair of VBK's they are great in Helicopters, they are like real anti torque pedals (what is in small helis, no toe brakes.

If you fly real planes or want it to feel like you are flying a real plane, pedals are a must. In Helis even more so. But there are many more reasons to fly, so if you feel you don't need them, don't get them.

It is not called stick & rudder skill for nothing.

VBK's on the left and TPR's on the right in this photo:

You may also notice I have separate yoke and joystick, for different types of planes and different throttle controls L&R depending on what I am flying. I also have separate VBK side stick for the A320.

I have the VKB pedals too and won't give them up for anything else. Very small footprint, all metal, solid quality, digital not analogue- no pots, has two dampers, inexpensive.

Also a Warthog throttle (has two throttles). One I use for throttle and the other for proportional brakes. It gives finer control to modulate brakes with your hand instead of your feet. In a car or flying with a yoke your hands are tied to other functions. But flying with a stick, one hand is free on the runway.

Conventional pedals this  youtuber likes the TM pendular.

I could not fly without a rudder controller, how am I going to point an unruly warbird down the RWY without doing the dance?