2 minutes ago, 177B said:

In the sim maybe. But not in a real plane. Even a 172 needs the brakes to turn really tight, like on a small taxi way to do runup into the wind.

Yes I'm aware of that, but this game are meant to work with a Xbox controller, so there is no need for the fancy stuff to steer planes.

12 minutes ago, 177B said:

In the sim maybe. But not in a real plane. Even a 172 needs the brakes to turn really tight, like on a small taxi way to do runup into the wind.

Irrelevant though in the sim. Simmers for decades have gotten by just fine with a joystick and keyboard. 
 

3 hours ago, Mace said:

I need to have my old Saiteks meet an untimely end.  Any tips on doing that?

I'm sort of kidding, but I do think part of the problem with MSFS over-exuberant yawing may be because my rudder pedals are old, not very precise, and about half worn-out.  The right side toe brake still works, but it lost its spring about a year ago.  I bet if I took it apart the spring would be laying in there somewhere.  Or it could even be a rubber/nylon band or something like that.

Sounds like you got your money's worth of use out of them.  Just consider all that you have saved due to all the free mods and scenery you have likely added to MSFS.  Perhaps you can sell or donate the worn out Saitek pedals to a shoe-shine vendor at your airport......

Edited August 11, 20214 yr by fppilot

14 minutes ago, Ixoye said:

Yes I'm aware of that, but this game are meant to work with a Xbox controller, so there is no need for the fancy stuff to steer planes.

Dumming down for X box???  That's sad. 

14 minutes ago, Ixoye said:

Yes I'm aware of that, but this game are meant to work with a Xbox controller, so there is no need for the fancy stuff to steer planes.

You are absolutely right. I think it is great that this sim is so scalable.

1 minute ago, Bobsk8 said:

Dumming down for X box???  That's sad. 

On the contrary I think it is great that FS2020 can be used in so many ways, it is good to get new sim pilots hooked on simming. Some of them may even become cockpit builders or go on to fly real planes.

23 minutes ago, Doug47 said:

Irrelevant though in the sim. Simmers for decades have gotten by just fine with a joystick and keyboard. 
 

Yes but some of us really like to make sims feel like real planes, some of the cockpits built for X-plane and FSX or P3D are amazing.

It is fine with me that some simmers use controllers or joysticks or even keyboards to fly.

But I for one and there are a lot of us here that like rudder pedals with toe brakes.

And next year (I know there already are some helis available) when Helicopters will be a part of this sim, anti torque pedals are a must for simulating a helicopter. OK there will probably be some way to do it as well with a x-box controller, but that will not be very real. And I think that is fine as well.

So I would not say rudder pedals are irrelevant for everyone, I guess they are for you and that is fine. But I still want mine.

 

I couldn't imagine flying the Bell 47 without pedals.    Well.. I could imagine it and it's not a pleasant thought 😄

I've flown plenty of helis in other sims and have always loved them, but since getting pedals I spend almost all of my time in MFS flying helis.   It such an increase immersion, and more importantly, control.

Do you need the logitech steering wheel and pedal set or just a ps4/xb controller to play and enjoy Euro Truck Simulator 2? Answer: depends on your preference.

There is no right or wrong.

Types of flying where rudder usage is sort of optional in game:

• airliners in the flight levels
• flying on autopilot
• flying with assisted rudder
• flying aircraft that taxi and takeoff really well
• flying aircraft that initiate turns OK with just stick
• pottering about doing standard turns looking at the scenery
• taking off and landing on long wide bitumen runways

Types of flying where good rudder control makes a difference

• rotary wing
• military sims for marksmanship and also putting off the enemies aim
• anywhere you need really crisp turns initiated with rudder such as canyon runs or scud running in cities
• aircraft prone to excess adverse yaw
• actual aerobatics (as opposed to calling an aileron roll a barrel roll and showing off in multiplayer streams flying upside in front of the streamer)
• any aircraft that mushes when trying to turn without rudder such as the Aerolite 103 or the Bleriot
• any aircraft with unpleasant takeoff in game such as the Carenado YMF5
• max demonstrated crosswind landings

Whether you will like or benefit from pedals is a separate question.  Pedals are a bit like trackIR  - some people will not fly without trackIR and other people cannot stand it.

There is  a learning curve and just like some people will never get the hang of playing a different beat on a bass drum to what their hands or doing on the snare, some people just find twist sticks or other hand controls more intuitive and never really get the hang of pedals (or give up too quick).  In some ways though, no pedals is a bit like a drum kit where the bass and high hat are hit by hand.  .  It can be done, with Japanese traditional drums for example you stand up and the base drum is at head height behind you, but a drummer with a high hat and double kick pedals can pull off stuff a traditional Japanese drum set cannot.

The main purpose of pedals is to allow you to be busy with both hands and still get relatively precise control, particularly in real-life aircraft where you may be putting a lot of force on the stick/yoke and rudder while fine tuning the throttle.

Are they essential? Clearly not. Are they helpful? That depends on the person, how they fly, what they fly and also the quality and type of the pedals.

Of course if you want ultimate precision you buy something like this which is level D approved but you are getting way beyond the needs of home simming in MSFS 2020:

 

 

I have also noticed that if I'm driving slow and press rudder and tap the brakes the same time, all aircraft will make a steeper turn than normal even without individual brakes.

It seems that the game compensates for those not having individual brakes, but for optimal realism, of course, rudder with individual brakes is preferable, but for me it was a cost issue when I built my computer at the same time, and my money was draining quickly, and the rudder pedals I chose was the best I could find for the money at the time.

But I will probably invest in MFG Crosswind V3 later this autumn, but I can warmly recommend VKB-SIM T-Rudder Pedals for those with a tight budget who are looking for quality pedals that are not made of plastic.

11 hours ago, Mace said:

I need to have my old Saiteks meet an untimely end.  Any tips on doing that?

I'm sort of kidding, but I do think part of the problem with MSFS over-exuberant yawing may be because my rudder pedals are old, not very precise, and about half worn-out.  The right side toe brake still works, but it lost its spring about a year ago.  I bet if I took it apart the spring would be laying in there somewhere.  Or it could even be a rubber/nylon band or something like that.

It's a metal spring that's attached to a very brittle piece of plastic. I bet the plastics snapped. The saiteks just ooze "quality". It's only 8 Philips head screws to take the foot cover off. If the spring has just popped off, it's only a 5 minute job to put back on.

I've got CH USB pedals and yoke but I did most of my flying with a MS Precision Pro 2 twist stick. I think some form of rudder control is essential for all but the simplest of flying in sim, but twisting the stick is not natural and ends up interfering with your aileron and elevator inputs. Pedals are ideal but they are expensive (particularly decent ones that will stand up to regular use) and bulky thus not accessible to all, I think a nice compromise is the "paddles" you get on some throttles and yokes - my Thrustmaster HOTAS X has this on it's throttle:

 

8 hours ago, 177B said:

On the contrary I think it is great that FS2020 can be used in so many ways, it is good to get new sim pilots hooked on simming. Some of them may even become cockpit builders or go on to fly real planes.

You'll have to excuse Bob, he's very much his way or the highway when it comes to the sim, and if there's a tiny opportunity to correlate something to the Xbox in a negative light, he shall be there 🤣

 

Edited August 11, 20214 yr by ckyliu

I will say that cutting a hole in your study floor to drop those Level D FFB CLS-P Brunner pedals into is probably taking things a little too far for casual home flight simming.

Aside from which it is probably going to set you back ten or twenty thousand just for the CLS-P pedals - no idea what they actually cost but it will not be cheap.  The level 1 certified CLS-E are expensive enough and these CLS-P  are another tier altogether beyond those.

Edited August 11, 20214 yr by Glenn Fitzpatrick

Oh man, this thread is wanting me to upgrade my stuff. And I just about finished paying off my initial hardware investment I did when MSFS came out... I have to wait some more 😄