1 year in, what's your general view on payware aircraft??

[eslader 1,557]

 Without having seen the financials of any of the addon devs, but based on experience in other areas, I'd be willing to bet Carenado nets more profit than PMDG. 

As an example, Ferrari tends to make around $580 million or so per year in profit. General Motors considers it a terrible year if they make less than 10 billion. Ferrari makes a lot more profit per car, but GM cranks out a lot more cars than the prancing horse brigade, to the point that Ferrari's gross revenues are billions less than GM's profit.

I'd be surprised if the economics aren't similar in the sim world. Carenado makes less per addon than PMDG does, but because they're spamming out so many addons that so many people are buying, and that they're spending less to produce, they probably wrap the year with more net income than PMDG. 

There's a point in addon production where it becomes more a labor of love than an exercise in raw capitalism. 

 

[Ricardo41 5,733]

Until the Kodiak 100 came out, I felt no need to buy an addon aircraft for MSFS 2020.

Not seeing anything in the pipeline that remotely interests me. I'll spend my money on scenery for the Kodiak 100, so I can try a few more challenging approaches (bought Maribel airport in France, which  is on sale from Orbx).

[MSFLYER5856 76]

10 minutes ago, eslader said:

 Without having seen the financials of any of the addon devs, but based on experience in other areas, I'd be willing to bet Carenado nets more profit than PMDG. 

As an example, Ferrari tends to make around $580 million or so per year in profit. General Motors considers it a terrible year if they make less than 10 billion. Ferrari makes a lot more profit per car, but GM cranks out a lot more cars than the prancing horse brigade, to the point that Ferrari's gross revenues are billions less than GM's profit.

I'd be surprised if the economics aren't similar in the sim world. Carenado makes less per addon than PMDG does, but because they're spamming out so many addons that so many people are buying, and that they're spending less to produce, they probably wrap the year with more net income than PMDG. 

There's a point in addon production where it becomes more a labor of love than an exercise in raw capitalism. 

 

What I like about Carenado is that when there were problems with the Mooney, they corrected the problems quite fast and delt with the MSFS issues that casued it.

[eslader 1,557]

10 hours ago, MSFLYER5856 said:

What I like about Carenado is that when there were problems with the Mooney, they corrected the problems quite fast and delt with the MSFS issues that casued it.

Yep. I have nothing against Carenado. They're actually better under MSFS than they were when they were deving for FSX/P3d. I'd still rather see them at least work with someone else to get better systems in their planes, but at least now even if they use the default glass 'pit gauges, it's worlds better than what they were doing in P3D.

 

[flyinpilot212121 724]

16 hours ago, MSFLYER5856 said:

What I like about Carenado is that when there were problems with the Mooney, they corrected the problems quite fast and delt with the MSFS issues that casued it.

Please tell me your kidding about the mooney being fixed quickly? Remember the fuel selector issue!

Actually, From what I understand, there are still issues with it, after landing, if you put the throttle to idle, the engine will cutout, seems like a rather easy fix… I will admit I haven’t used it since SU5 but I did read that the throttle to idle issue is present. 

Edited January 4, 2022 by flyinpilot212121

[MSFLYER5856 76]

On 1/4/2022 at 1:44 AM, flyinpilot212121 said:

Please tell me your kidding about the mooney being fixed quickly? Remember the fuel selector issue!

Actually, From what I understand, there are still issues with it, after landing, if you put the throttle to idle, the engine will cutout, seems like a rather easy fix… I will admit I haven’t used it since SU5 but I did read that the throttle to idle issue is present. 

But I dont need to select fuel per my MSFS settings. To each his own way of flying and Mooney fits my way.

[flyinpilot212121 724]

23 hours ago, MSFLYER5856 said:

But I dont need to select fuel per my MSFS settings. To each his own way of flying and Mooney fits my way.

I understand, but you said they fix problems rather quickly, which they absolutely don't. My comment wasn't regarding in the way that someone flies, it was regarding your misleading post of them quickly fixing issues. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the Mooney, and their Seminole, but its truly not fair to say they fix issues quickly.... regardless of your settings.

Edited January 6, 2022 by flyinpilot212121

[Ricardo41 5,733]

 

double post

Edited January 6, 2022 by Ricardo41

[Ricardo41 5,733]

On 8/23/2021 at 2:03 AM, JYW said:

........ I have to say, I'm pretty disappointed in the overall quality level of most (not all) payware aircraft I have bought.  I think we still don't have a lot of choices and there seems to be a lot of lesser known developers in the space at the moment, and a lack of names that can be trusted for consistent quality.

The Just Flight Arrows and Warrior are great - zero complaints. I'm also pleased overall with most aspects of the quality of the Sim works CH701, although feel it's overpriced for what it is.  The IRIS J160/170 is quite good overall but let down in some areas of texturing, and in the lack of some immersive sounds (doors opening, some switches, sound changes when door is opened, etc).   The Carenado C182 is pretty awful IMHO, just doesn't fly right and interior engine sounds are dire.  The Carenado Seneca is nice overal but the flight dynamics seem far too twitchy and 'lumpy' to me (although I have only used it post-SU5, so don't know if SU5 perhaps broke the FDE).  The Asobo 103 solo is decent and was cheap; but more of a addon default aircraft.

The AT Simulations Cri Cri has grass coming through the base of the fuselage into the aircraft - I'll leave that there.  The BT Studios Kitfox is "less than default" standards of quality and features, in all areas. (You cannot even cut the engine without using the default key shortcut).

The worst two for me, are the NextGen EMB110, which is without doubt the joint biggest waste of money I've spent in MSFS to date.  I get a huge performance drop when looking at the (bland, poorly textured) Main Panel.  The engine sounds are from a Yamaha 50cc moped (x2).  Again the texturing quality in that plane to my eyes is sub-FS9 quality.  The AP behaves oddly.   And joint worse (IMHO) is the Lionheart TB-21.... my word, what a mess.  It uses default Asobo piston engine sounds, there are no switch, door or immersion sounds, the texturing is truly sub-standard, and the sim performance is still quite poor.

I don't have the PMDG DC-6 (partly because the aircraft doesn't interest me) nor the Aerosoft CRJ, as I've generally been pretty put off wasting any more money on sub-standard payware aircraft for MSFS.   (As a comparison, my last 2 addons bought for XP11 were the Aerobask Phenom 300 and the ToLiss A319!).

I spend most of my time in the sim in the fantastic freeware modified; DA62, DA40, C208, TBM, G36 Turbo, CJ4, Cubs, VL-3 and C152.    Even the absolute default C172, C172 G1000, Baron G58, Pipistrel Virus, Diamond DV20, Diamond DA40TDi and SR22 are much more enjoyable to fly and be in, than the vast majority of my payware aircraft.

Is it just me?

Brilliant post. 

Just imagine if Aerosoft had developed the Kodiak 100......

[Sonosusto 495]

Aerosoft CRJ Series: Brilliantly modeled and physics. Performance has improved in the last several months. I would say worth the money for how much time I've been flying these. Mostly the larger versions. Now I just fly the 1000 mainly. I know the aircraft isn't amazing in every way but for the amount of systems depth and fairly realistic performance....I would say its in my top. If you don't climb properly one of your wings can lose performance until you throttle up/nose down to get out of that "pre" stall phase and you're back in action.

Zenith STOL: Fun to fly but maybe a bit too much money at the time. Should have waited for a sale but meh. Whatevs. It has been updated recently with skis etc which improve locations. Since the update I've been enjoying smaller fields with it. Really like it again.

Carenado: Vowed to never buy Carenado again after experiencing lackluster physics and systems from previous simulators. The Seneca surprised me, however. Especially with the included GTN750 integration. Love this plane for what it is. Looks good, easy to get up in the air. Not all of us have time to set up a plan and sequence taking a bit. Sometimes I just want to loadup Pilot2ATC and the Seneca with some touch and goes. It doesn't cost much but I would have preferred to wait for a sale. Nowhere near as realistic as JF, Milviz, SimWorks, Aerosoft or PMDG obviously but that's not the point. Have not flow their stuff in a long....long time.

NextGen EMB 110: I have tried to like this plane but even after the most recent update its really annoying, the sounds are still bad, the modeling is all over the place the AP tries to kill you (yes, not operator error, there are bugs) and it looks like it was cheaply made. I tried to help the dev in the past with feedback but it takes forever to get nothing done. In short, this plane is deleted from my "hangar" and I will never buy a product from them ever again.

PMDG DC-6: Whoah what a powerhouse. Pricey but you get exactly what you pay for. A very well modeled plane in pretty much every possible way. Perfect? No. Nothing is. But if I were to say which plane is closest....it would be this. Sometimes, I don't have the time to mess around with a long start up and I don't like using its "engineer" to start everything up for me. I want to do it myself. So unfortunately, this isn't flown as much as I like. Life. Hobbies etc.

Just Flight Arrow Series: Immediately bought these upon release. Well modeled.....physics and all. Several steps above the rest. Next to the Kodiak and Milviz Porter, these are the best GA aircraft you could buy. When I think of GA payware, I think of JF setting the bar. Certainly in my top list.

Working Title CJ4: Been flying this since it started. I don't always have time to try their beta builds but I usually update after they do on their end. Not always a huge fan of the FMC in smaller jets/props but I do for this. Amazing freeware!!

SimWorks Kodiak: Again, amazing. Very well modeled and detailed. STOL capabilities and GTN 750 have been integrated directly from the Dev of the GTN. Definitely in my top list!

Milviz Porter: Not even a question. A lot better than default, that is for sure. Not even a comparison. Not much else to say but it was worth buying for me. Great for STOL obviously. I tried the default porter but its hardly even a comparison. Milviz focuses on systems/performance/handling.

I have avoided other payware after watching videos and reviews.

Freeware Mods: DA62, C208, DA40, TBM etc. These are great but I have to disagree with the above statement. They hardly hold against most of the payware I've listed. The WT CJ4 however and FBW are pretty good. The HypeH135 is pretty amazing too. I think these freeware mods....especially the FBW, CJ4 and Diamond series are pretty good. Compared to Aerobask from XP maybe? Not sure. But they are getting close..and free!

 

Some of these needed some time to adjust to Asobo's over-zealous nature of updates and breaking parts/models etc. Now some of these teething issues are done with. Still some ironing out but the above listed planes I tend to fly often and love all of them for their little ways. Freeeware mods I usually just don't fly as much. These planes above are leaps and bounds better in my opinion. Except the EMB110. Avoid it like the plague.

 

Looking forward to the Milviz 310 and ATR series.

 

 

 

Edited January 6, 2022 by Sonosusto

[eslader 1,557]

On 1/6/2022 at 1:05 PM, Sonosusto said:

Some of these needed some time to adjust to Asobo's over-zealous nature of updates and breaking parts/models etc.

I think this is an important consideration when evaluating anyone's payware.  From what I can tell, Asobo isn't doing a terribly good job alerting 3pds when it's about to break something. The 3pd has no idea their plane is about to become junk until the update releases. Then they have to get their coders together, figure out what Asobo broke, how it broke, and how they can work around Asobo's changes. That's not an instantaneous process, and I think we need to give the 3pds some grace to fix those problems. Especially since Asobo will probably release a hotfix a week or so after they break stuff, which will not fix the plane but which might well change how the fix needs to be developed, causing further delay.

Not to say that Asobo shouldn't be continuing development - it absolutely should - but blaming the 3pds for problems caused by that development is pretty off base. After all, we don't blame Toyota for potholes. 😉

 

[WestAir 2,423]

I almost wonder if a biannual update would be better than monthly.

[Sonosusto 495]

10 hours ago, eslader said:

I think this is an important consideration when evaluating anyone's payware.  From what I can tell, Asobo isn't doing a terribly good job alerting 3pds when it's about to break something. The 3pd has no idea their plane is about to become junk until the update releases. Then they have to get their coders together, figure out what Asobo broke, how it broke, and how they can work around Asobo's changes. That's not an instantaneous process, and I think we need to give the 3pds some grace to fix those problems. Especially since Asobo will probably release a hotfix a week or so after they break stuff, which will not fix the plane but which might well change how the fix needs to be developed, causing further delay.

Not to say that Asobo shouldn't be continuing development - it absolutely should - but blaming the 3pds for problems caused by that development is pretty off base. After all, we don't blame Toyota for potholes. 😉

 

Yeah, I hope I was clear in that not always blaming developers of the aircraft. 🙂

Unfortunately, some developers have/had to cease development for a short time due to Asobo/MS. Oh well. Teething issues.

My biggest gripe are plane developer who release unfinished products that hardly get updates. I waited for a few to update before purchasing. Some I bought right away. Some of these I wish I bought upon release. Some of these I wish I waited for a few months. Some of these planes I wish I never bought in the first place.

 

[JBDB-MD80 1,279]

Just Flight Pipers (little pricey), Milviz PC6, PMDG DC6, Aerosoft CRJ are pretty solid addons the others are pretty? for what the charge Kodiak should be cheaper than what they ask for it other than that it is very good. When "that's a big when" A2A brings a aircraft over to MSFS and PMDG, Maddog X, and Fenix bring their airliners products over (I still see 2023) they will blow everything else out of the water. I just don't see many GA aircraft compared to other sims in the same category as A2A or the stuff in XPlane I do suspect the Aerosoft Twin Otter to be one of the most popular addons in MSFS or any sim for that matter though. JMO.

Edited January 9, 2022 by jbdbow1970

[Dominique_K 9,912]

16 hours ago, WestAir said:

I almost wonder if a biannual update would be better than monthly.

I don’t wonder. I know in my bones it would 😁 !