3 hours ago, Skyseek said:

I tried out the 172 in the Standard Edition  and wasn’t impressed. I just flew the RW yesterday and it’s too bad they can’t engineer force feedback on the yoke and pedals, and adjust on the basis of the aircraft you are flying.
 

 

You can't get real stick and rudder feel of real airplane from peripheral in any sim even most realistic. However, you can adjust sensitivity to match your real world sensations.

Force feedback is bad idea as it doesn't reflect how real airplane fly. Proficient 172 pilots do not wrestle with yoke. Instead they set power and trim for airspeed. Unless RW 172 rigged wrong one can't control it with two fingers! That where any stick can match RW "feel"

Instead of FF, I highly recommend honeycomb bravo quadrant. The most important thing in quadrant is elevator trim wheel! That give ultimate simulation experience and very close feel of real 172

45 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

Force feedback is bad idea as it doesn't reflect how real airplane fly.

That is just silly.

There is a reason why the Brunner FFB Yokes and pedals are Class D approved.

The worst case with Force Feedback is you set it up to work as a spring action exactly like a normal toy yoke, In this setup the force to push the stick forward is exactly what you get with bungee cords or springs like a Saitek or Honeycomb.  Not a lot of point to that of course, you may as well have springs and save money but it is not "bad".

What extra forces you add in after that is a matter of what the simulation provides and user choice.  Most good FFB software provides the option to turn on or turn off all the following:

• gimmicky stuff like wheel rumble and turbulence which tends to be a bit pointless and can be turned off, I would include in this having the yoke slump forward under the weight of the elevators when stopped in GA, kinda cool but pointless
• increased force with greater airspeed, this may not necessarily be exactly calibrated for every aircraft but it is still far better than the spring/bungee centring mechanisms that CH/Saitek/honeycomb use that never change force regardless of air speed
• some form of stall warning through either the stick going slack or a stick shaker effect, neither of which are precisely real for every aircraft,  but they are still more realistic than no warning at all like the bungee yokes
• movement of the yoke with trim instead of the silly situation with spring centred yokes where as you trim,  the yoke in your virtual screen holds position forward or back from centre but your real yoke moves back to centre as you trim it

FFB is never going to be "exactly like real" but it has the possibility, with the right software and calibration, of being much more realistic than a bungee cord in a box.  More importantly you can calibrate the effects to match the real aircraft rather than the one size fits all thing you get with a bungee yoke.

Now ...  if you had said "FFB support in MSFS is awful and the available gear too expensive do not bother" I may have been inclined to agree with you 😄

The issue in MSFS is that the peripherals are silly prices (thousands of dollars) and the game does not support anything other than really basic gimmicky FFB at present,

Edited September 6, 20214 yr by Glenn Fitzpatrick

4 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I have a few hundred hours in a real C 172. I don't like using yokes in a flight sim, I use a Thrustmaster T16000M . Gave up on yokes years ago, must of them really suck and take up way  too much room. 

My Saitek yoke and throttles were really sticky and difficult to use as a result.  I went back to my old logitec joystick and bought the airbus version to use with msfs.  I also have rudder pedals which work OK but are hard to use as my knees come up against the bottom of my desk enen though I raised it a few inches with wooden blocks.

I also echo your comment about finding a 172 with a G1000 in the real world. The ones I flew didn't even have an autopilot and no electronics other than radios (just like the 152 in the sim).

I can't comment about force feedback as I've never tried it, but have doubts about it's likely realism.

4 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I have a few hundred hours in a real C 172. I don't like using yokes in a flight sim, I use a Thrustmaster T16000M . Gave up on yokes years ago, must of them really suck and take up way  too much room. 

My Saitek yoke and throttles were really sticky and difficult to use as a result.  I went back to my old logitec joystick and bought the airbus version to use with msfs.  I also have rudder pedals which work OK but are hard to use as my knees come up against the bottom of my desk enen though I raised it a few inches with wooden blocks.

I also echo your comment about finding a 172 with a G1000 in the real world. The ones I flew didn't even have an autopilot and no electronics other than radios (just like the 152 in the sim).

I can't comment about force feedback as I've never tried it, but have doubts about it's likely realism.

4 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I have a few hundred hours in a real C 172. I don't like using yokes in a flight sim, I use a Thrustmaster T16000M . Gave up on yokes years ago, must of them really suck and take up way  too much room. 

My Saitek yoke and throttles were really sticky and difficult to use as a result.  I went back to my old logitec joystick and bought the airbus version to use with msfs.  I also have rudder pedals which work OK but are hard to use as my knees come up against the bottom of my desk enen though I raised it a few inches with wooden blocks.

I also echo your comment about finding a 172 with a G1000 in the real world. The ones I flew didn't even have an autopilot and no electronics other than radios (just like the 152 in the sim).

I can't comment about force feedback as I've never tried it, but have doubts about it's likely realism.

4 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I have a few hundred hours in a real C 172. I don't like using yokes in a flight sim, I use a Thrustmaster T16000M . Gave up on yokes years ago, must of them really suck and take up way  too much room. 

My Saitek yoke and throttles were really sticky and difficult to use as a result.  I went back to my old logitec joystick and bought the airbus version to use with msfs.  I also have rudder pedals which work OK but are hard to use as my knees come up against the bottom of my desk enen though I raised it a few inches with wooden blocks.

I also echo your comment about finding a 172 with a G1000 in the real world. The ones I flew didn't even have an autopilot and no electronics other than radios (just like the 152 in the sim).

I can't comment about force feedback as I've never tried it, but have doubts about it's likely realism.

4 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I have a few hundred hours in a real C 172. I don't like using yokes in a flight sim, I use a Thrustmaster T16000M . Gave up on yokes years ago, must of them really suck and take up way  too much room. 

My Saitek yoke and throttles were really sticky and difficult to use as a result.  I went back to my old logitec joystick and bought the airbus version to use with msfs.  I also have rudder pedals which work OK but are hard to use as my knees come up against the bottom of my desk enen though I raised it a few inches with wooden blocks.

I also echo your comment about finding a 172 with a G1000 in the real world. The ones I flew didn't even have an autopilot and no electronics other than radios (just like the 152 in the sim).

I can't comment about force feedback as I've never tried it, but have doubts about it's likely realism.

4 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I have a few hundred hours in a real C 172. I don't like using yokes in a flight sim, I use a Thrustmaster T16000M . Gave up on yokes years ago, must of them really suck and take up way  too much room. 

My Saitek yoke and throttles were really sticky and difficult to use as a result.  I went back to my old logitec joystick and bought the airbus version to use with msfs.  I also have rudder pedals which work OK but are hard to use as my knees come up against the bottom of my desk enen though I raised it a few inches with wooden blocks.

I also echo your comment about finding a 172 with a G1000 in the real world. The ones I flew didn't even have an autopilot and no electronics other than radios (just like the 152 in the sim).

I can't comment about force feedback as I've never tried it, but have doubts about it's likely realism.

24 minutes ago, cianpars said:

My Saitek yoke and throttles were really sticky and difficult to use as a result...

😆  Wow!  Six reposts.  Never seen that many before.  Were your Saitek yoke and throttles really sticky and difficult to use as a result by any chance?

Edited September 6, 20214 yr by bobcat999

6 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I have a few hundred hours in a real C 172. I don't like using yokes in a flight sim, I use a Thrustmaster T16000M . Gave up on yokes years ago, must of them really suck and take up way  too much room. 

Same here ! Hundreds of real hours on C172 steam and G1000, carb heat or fuel injection.

Regarding PC peripherals, to get a better sense of reality with my T16000 and the C172 Steam, I felt the need to decrease the sensitivity within MSFS... but unfortunately I need to increase again because of the Just Flight Piper Warrior which is too much sensitive for the C172 setup. So far, here's my T16000 sensitivity page, but all-in-all and after 20 years of flight simulation, I think that the sense of flying small GA plane is not my best part of sim experience 😉 No worries I have plenty of other sim experience to enjoy (Foreflight/Skydemon connection, IVAO...).

9 hours ago, Skyseek said:

Anybody using the Logitech Saitek yoke and pedals?  

I use the Saitek rudder pedals and a Saitek Throttle/mixture/prop lever, but the stick is a Thrustmaster hotas.

4 hours ago, bobcat999 said:

😆  Wow!  Six reposts.  Never seen that many before.  Were your Saitek yoke and throttles really sticky and difficult to use as a result by any chance?

Guess we now know that it wasn't actually the Saitek yoke and throttles which were the problem, evidently it was the left mouse button. 🤣

5 hours ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

That is just silly.

There is a reason why the Brunner FFB Yokes and pedals are Class D approved.

 

As mentioned before I flew some FAA approved sims during my commercial training. Nothing felts like real airplane. So more expensive perepherials  doesn't  mean better.

6 hours ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

FFB is never going to be "exactly like real" but it has the possibility, with the right software and calibration, of being much more realistic than a bungee cord in a box.  More importantly you can calibrate the effects to match the real aircraft rather than the one size fits all thing you get with a bungee yoke.

This is similar to the artificial feel systems in a real aircraft with hydraulic flight controls. These use hydraulic actuators (and often springs) to cause increased resistance to yoke movement as airspeed increases. There are usually dedicated computers controlling the artificial feel actuators. Most airliners also have a rudder ratio limiter to restrict maximum rudder deflection as airspeed increases, even with full pedal deflection.

In a simple GA aircraft with mechanical flight controls, the increased resistance comes directly from the air load on the control surfaces.

An exception is a full FBW aircraft like the A320, where there is no “force feedback” of any kind on the pilot’s side stick controller.

Back to the original topic I do wish it was possible to pay a little extra to pick and choose some of the addons from the Deluxe/Premium versions. Most of them I wouldn't want but I would pay for the steam gauge 172. I expect Carenado will update theirs for MSFS eventually.