3 hours ago, iFlySimX said:

SU6 clouds still garbage...what the heck is going on??

I don't call these clouds grainy and they are not pixelated either.  I don't care for the colors or the banding (which is barely visible in this picture) but I don't see pixelation.  These clouds are simulated and I don't know how they create them but 'pixels' must be part of the creation somewhere along the line.

I've seen a lot of complaints about pixelation and I fear that is what led to the current blurry cloud with color banding syndrome.

Edited October 30, 20214 yr by sightseer

7 minutes ago, sightseer said:

I don't call these clouds grainy and they are not pixelated either.  I don't care for the colors or the banding (which is barely visible in this picture) but I don't see pixelation.  These clouds are simulated and I don't know how they create them but 'pixels' must be part of the creation somewhere along the line.

I've seen a lot of complaints about pixelation and I fear that is what led to the current blurry cloud with color banding syndrome.

Look at the video, you see it a lot more there..

Those who are experiencing grain, pixelation and/or banding in the clouds, make sure to upvote the following threads:

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/bug-logged-color-artifacts-and-rough-gradient-clouds-like-oil-painting/427680

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/pixelated-and-grainy-clouds-are-back-1-14-5-0/375977

12 minutes ago, sightseer said:

These clouds are simulated and I don't know how they create them but 'pixels' must be part of the creation somewhere along the line.

The clouds are made of voxels. They also rely on temporal sample accumulation over several frames to improve performance, which is why they look more pixelated when flying close to them and at higher speeds.

Other rendering techniques relying on temporal accumulation are reflections, shadows, ambient occlusion and anti-aliasing, and all of them exhibit different behaviour since Sim Update 5 because the accumulation algorithm has been changed according to Lionel in his interview with Digital Foundry. This comes with some advantages but also some drawbacks, like the clouds looking pixelated in quick motion. The banding though seems to be a bug with the dynamic range that affects the entire rendered image.

46 minutes ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

Those who are experiencing grain, pixelation and/or banding in the clouds, make sure to upvote the following threads:

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/bug-logged-color-artifacts-and-rough-gradient-clouds-like-oil-painting/427680

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/pixelated-and-grainy-clouds-are-back-1-14-5-0/375977

The clouds are made of voxels. They also rely on temporal sample accumulation over several frames to improve performance, which is why they look more pixelated when flying close to them and at higher speeds.

Other rendering techniques relying on temporal accumulation are reflections, shadows, ambient occlusion and anti-aliasing, and all of them exhibit different behaviour since Sim Update 5 because the accumulation algorithm has been changed according to Lionel in his interview with Digital Foundry. This comes with some advantages but also some drawbacks, like the clouds looking pixelated in quick motion. The banding though seems to be a bug with the dynamic range that affects the entire rendered image.

At early versions i don't remember seeing pixelated clouds like today ones. After xbox version released, asobo cut down some graphics for performance concerns. 

When there's no discernable difference in cloud quality between a 300$ gaming console and some High-End PC, someone got screwed. Oh wait: there's no purple fringes on XBox-S, maybe I should get one?

 

On 9/26/2021 at 1:33 PM, iFlySimX said:

Here is a video of them flashing and being very pixelated. 

 

This is exactly what i see.

27 minutes ago, spitzer45 said:

At early versions i don't remember seeing pixelated clouds like today ones. After xbox version released, asobo cut down some graphics for performance concerns. 

We need to put this myth to bed. The Xbox and PC versions are different builds. Asobo have, however, been trying to make headroom in the PC version for all the other features and improvements they have planned and that people have requested, as well as providing better FPS performance across the board that users were asking for.

35 minutes ago, spitzer45 said:

At early versions i don't remember seeing pixelated clouds like today ones.

Correct, though keep in mind that the cloud rendering algorithms have changed several times since launch.

• Sim Update 1 - First grain/pixelation complaints started, and caused flickering on older GPUs.
• Sim Update 2 - Fixed the flickering on older GPUs.
• World Update 3 - Fixed the grain/pixelation, but caused the glowing outlines.
• Sim Update 3 - Fixed the glowing outlines, but caused more grain/pixelation.
• Sim Update 5 - Temporal accumulation algorithm tweaked across the board.

10 minutes ago, March Hare said:

The Xbox and PC versions are different builds.

Exact same builds, but different configuration flags enabled according to Working Title.

20 minutes ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

Correct, though keep in mind that the cloud rendering algorithms have changed several times since launch.

• Sim Update 1 - First grain/pixelation complaints started, and caused flickering on older GPUs.
• Sim Update 2 - Fixed the flickering on older GPUs.
• World Update 3 - Fixed the grain/pixelation, but caused the glowing outlines.
• Sim Update 3 - Fixed the glowing outlines, but caused more grain/pixelation.
• Sim Update 5 - Temporal accumulation algorithm tweaked across the board.

Exact same builds, but different configuration flags enabled according to Working Title.

Originally bought this sim FOR the incredible clouds depicted in the initial release. Hopefully they can get back to them while retaining the performance optimization(s).

3 minutes ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

Exact same builds, but different configuration flags enabled according to Working Title.

Might be some misunderstanding there. They can't be the same build. For one, the Xbox version is already fully DX12 based, but Asobo have still been implementing DX12 (and only as a beta option) into the PC build. Either way, even if they were both DX12, they can't be the same build; you can't take the PC version and simply drop it into the Xbox. Porting doesn't work like that, even if you presume so. Many systems will be different: graphics, audio, core, networking... Even though they probably started with the same/similar code base in some ways. They just couldn't be the same build.

Point is, Asobo certainly haven't done anything with the PC version simply to make it fit into the Xbox, because you can't drop one into the other. There's no sense in that notion.

Make sure you go into UserCfg and change Sharpen and FilmGrain to 0. Did the trick for me. 

2 hours ago, RobJC said:

Make sure you go into UserCfg and change Sharpen and FilmGrain to 0. Did the trick for me. 

Did what exactly? Looked and noticed Sharpen was set 1 so changed it to 0. Filmgrain was already 0.

3 hours ago, March Hare said:

Might be some misunderstanding there. They can't be the same build. For one, the Xbox version is already fully DX12 based, but Asobo have still been implementing DX12 (and only as a beta option) into the PC build. Either way, even if they were both DX12, they can't be the same build; you can't take the PC version and simply drop it into the Xbox. Porting doesn't work like that, even if you presume so. Many systems will be different: graphics, audio, core, networking... Even though they probably started with the same/similar code base in some ways. They just couldn't be the same build.

Point is, Asobo certainly haven't done anything with the PC version simply to make it fit into the Xbox, because you can't drop one into the other. There's no sense in that notion.

I am so happy to see you say this. The "dumbing-down" hypothesis -- that Asobo somehow deliberately degraded the quality of MSFS graphics in order to accommodate Xbox -- has persisted like a plague, even though it has no basis, has been repeatedly debunked, and is clearly false on the visual evidence. 

Edited October 30, 20214 yr by cobalt

4 hours ago, Flyfaster_MTN002 said:

Hopefully they can get back to them while retaining the performance optimization(s).

And if not possible, they should just bring back the old quality with a higher graphics setting. Although it's worth mentioning that in an older Q&A they said that they will be increasing the sample count of clouds, or something of that sort, in order to enable more cloud types, including cirrus clouds. Perhaps the changes to the temporal accumulation algorithm are a preparation for that, but either way I hope they can touch on the subject and let us know what they plan for the future.

4 hours ago, March Hare said:

For one, the Xbox version is already fully DX12 based, but Asobo have still been implementing DX12 (and only as a beta option) into the PC build. Either way, even if they were both DX12, they can't be the same build; you can't take the PC version and simply drop it into the Xbox. Porting doesn't work like that, even if you presume so. Many systems will be different: graphics, audio, core, networking... Even though they probably started with the same/similar code base in some ways. They just couldn't be the same build.

For a while now the Xbox consoles (and to extent PlayStation) have been using very similar, if not the same, architectures and APIs, so I don't see why it wouldn't be possible. It's worth noting that parts of DirectX 12 code have existed in the PC version for a very long while (thanks to research by RXP/CptLucky8 and some others in the official forums), and since it's going to be a toggle with Sim Update 7 and later, it is very likely that via the configuration flags that I mentioned, DirectX 11 is enabled for PC and DirectX 12 for the Xbox, which as they said in the Q&A, is only a very basic implementation that is tuned to perform similarly to DirectX 11.

Also what we got with Sim Update 5 was very much the result of the console's limitations. Asobo just needed some more time so they could allow the PC version to turn up the graphics to the same (if not higher) level than before. Otherwise, I'm not seeing any differences in the core simulation and other things between the two versions.

Edited October 30, 20214 yr by ChaoticBeauty

12 hours ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

For a while now the Xbox consoles (and to extent PlayStation) have been using very similar, if not the same, architectures and APIs, so I don't see why it wouldn't be possible. It's worth noting that parts of DirectX 12 code have existed in the PC version for a very long while (thanks to research by RXP/CptLucky8 and some others in the official forums), and since it's going to be a toggle with Sim Update 7 and later, it is very likely that via the configuration flags that I mentioned, DirectX 11 is enabled for PC and DirectX 12 for the Xbox, which as they said in the Q&A, is only a very basic implementation that is tuned to perform similarly to DirectX 11.

Also what we got with Sim Update 5 was very much the result of the console's limitations. Asobo just needed some more time so they could allow the PC version to turn up the graphics to the same (if not higher) level than before. Otherwise, I'm not seeing any differences in the core simulation and other things between the two versions.

I can see your way of thinking, but...

Although there are some similarities, it isn't possible to run the same build from PC on Xbox. The executable wouldn't work. One reason being the operating system (but not the only reason). They really are different builds.

Even if Asobo developed tools with a flag/switching system (while developing the separate ported Xbox build, which they may have laid foundations for at the start, having early access to the Series X platform), to make future development updates across platforms easier, and even if they developed optimisation techniques for the Xbox version that could then benefit the PC version's performance, they are still separate builds. So it makes no sense to state or imply that they diminished the quality of the PC version to squeeze it into the Xbox, because porting doesn't work like shoe-horning one into the other. They didn't need to touch the PC version to create an Xbox ported version. They could have left the PC build exactly how it was. What they did for the PC version, even if some of it was the result of optimisation techniques brought to light during the port to Xbox, they did for the sake of the PC version, to give them headroom to make further enhancements without bringing contemporary hardware to a grind when putting new features in.