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Guest captaindobbin

Eaglesoft FPS hit??

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Can someone please provide input on how the Citation, and Cirrus affect FPS in FSX. I have the sim the way I like it, and hold steady in all weather at 27fps (locked). In the lear, they hold around 25. I want to purchase the cirrus for sure, but am worried of an FPS hit that might make it unflyable. Thanks very much in advance.danon - -

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No impact of the Cirrus on FPS. Excellent plane, great support!

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I have a medium system...P4 3ghz....2gig RAM...7600GT video card. I fly in rural TN. With a Flight 1 Cessna 172 I can maintain 25 FPS at my local airport...KMRC. I use no autogen but my other sliders with the exception of traffic are maxed out. With the Cirrus 22 my FPS goes down to 14FPS.

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Why would anyone say that the cirrus has no fps hit? Of course it does. In fsx it performs a little slower than the g1000 172, but that's on xp. In vista it works only if you disable Data Execution Prevention, and even then the hit is worse than on xp. I realize that avidyne simulation is no simple task, but Eaglesoft seriously need to optimize their planes. Not overkill with the glass resolution, for one. The Liberty, a non-avidyne, is a prime example as it gets ridiculously low fps because of the inefficient vm1000, which is much faster in the aussim glasair III.

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The Eaglesoft Cirrus has an impact of about 5 fps here with my setup (see below) compared to the 172 w/G1000.Keep in mind that the Cirrus has 2 auxiliary Garmins compared to the stock 172 with the G1000, which naturally eats up more CPU cycles.I'll keep my fingers crossed that SP1 will bring some relief, because the Cirrus is my favorite FSX plane. Hands down....at least until the Columbia is released.Pat

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hmmm..Gives me something to think about. Too bad I cannot try it out. I am not going to upgrade for a few more month's and it sounds like unless I am just really rare, it will hit me hard. I had a feeling the vc would be intense on the frames. Right now I cannot justify a 14fps drop, especially for rural flight. Now...I could stand to lose 5 fps, but who knows what I will face. Im not missing something, there is no demo version right?? No try and then buy....thanks for all the input so far.danon -

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I have the Liberty for FSX and it eats frames.Nice plane though. I like EagleSoft.

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I like eaglesoft too, don't get me wrong; I have bought several of their planes. Their avidyne is easily unmatched and has the endorsement of the company itself. Nevertheless, the planes do not have to be quite as hard on the frame rates as they are. I notice that if you unclick high resolution cockpit in fsx then the cirrus gets 10 frames more. The appearance suffers too much, however, so it would be nice if there were an option for a avidyne resolution somewhere in between. The Liberty frame rate hit is unwarranted, but yes the plane is very accurate. The columbia 400 would have to be seriously optimized for fsx because it performs worse than the cirrus in fs9, despite the fact that the glass screen is smaller. I just wish they would go back and optimize everything, especially now with the demands of fsx. After all, they only give 30 % discount for the upgrades, yet the planes are exactly the same. Tisk tisk.

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No Impact? Surely, you jest. Of course it has an impact. The FPS drop will vary from annoying to disasterous depending on the system.Doug

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FPS questions will always bring a variety of answers based on users systems and experiences. They usually range from bad to excellent depending on whom you ask.Keep in mind that Eaglesoft Development Group uses the Flight One Ecommerce system and has had a 30 day refund policy in place since day one. This allows users to determine whether a product is good on the USERS system:-)

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>...yet the planes are exactly the>same. Tisk tisk.No, they are NOT the same. Just because they LOOK alike doesn't mean the actual .mdl is the same... Tisk, tisk indeed! :-beerchug

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...hardly a fair comparison at all... ;)

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Yes, you can try it out - they use the Flight 1 wrapper. Try it for up to 30 days and return with no questions if it doesn't suit you.DJ

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>Yes, you can try it out - they use the Flight 1 wrapper. Try>it for up to 30 days and return with no questions if it>doesn't suit you.>>DJExactly. No need to rehash everyones view of product X, Y, or Z since the refund policy is in place. In our view, users need to evaluate performance on their OWN machine with their OWN settings to have an accurate assessment of a given product.:-)

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Bill,Please don't assume the worst. By exactly the same I meant there are no new features, e.g. textures, self-shadowing, bumpmapping, or windshield. They did not redesign the plane from the ground up like realair did with their sf260. The realair upgrade discount is more than 50%. Given the fsx demands, it would have been nice for eaglesoft to rigorously optimize the plane for fsx which they did not. They simply made it work. I do not mean that's an easy task, far from it, but 30% discount, that means the plane is still about $20 when you've already spent about $30 on the old one. Yet I admit this point is more arguable than the second regarding the vm1000.As far as vector gps, that's one thing. But an engine block; I think if you actually check you'll find that the glasair vm1000 looks just as good and is as smooth as that of the liberty. More imporant, the heaviest performance impact in the liberty comes not from the two gps but from its vm1000 - I checked. The liberty performs at a similar level to the cirrus yet has modern glass. I don't care nor does anyone else who bought the plane what the reason is (vector vs xml etc.). The point is the plane is almost unflyable in fsx and it shouldn't be.

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Why do you assume that ESDG is finished with the SR20/22? I only assume that ESDG released an interim version to make them flyable in FSX. It might be that there will be a further update one day, when all the remodeling dust settles. :) I much prefer to remain optimistic...

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Bill,As do I, as do I. I don't want to start a fight or appear obnoxious. I'm just being honestly critical. I am still happy with my purchases from eaglesoft as they offer a fantastic avidyne, no doubt about it. I just think they could work on making things more affordable for past customers, and - what is more significant to me since I already spent the money - more frame rate friendly given fsx. I think what I posted earlier about having an option to decrease the top resolution of the avidyne slightly (not to the blurry level of the low resolution cockpit mode) is a simple method and compromise. As it stands, in high resolution cockpit mode you can zoom in within inches and the avidyne is still sharp; perhaps it could be toned down just a little for the sake of performance. I do find it curious, however, that the resolution of gauges in fsx and fs9 is primarily cpu bound and not gpu bound. You'd think that if the high resolution cockpit avidyne or g1000 is simulating the same avionics systems as the low resolution one, that the impact would remain more or less the same if you had a good graphics card, but this is not the case. Owen could you please address what I am saying in this paragraph? By the way, I am unable to register on your forums with either of my email accounts.

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>I think what I posted earlier about having an option to>decrease the top resolution of the avidyne slightly (not to>the blurry level of the low resolution cockpit mode) is a>simple method and compromise. As it stands, in high resolution>cockpit mode you can zoom in within inches and the avidyne is>still sharp; perhaps it could be toned down just a little for>the sake of performance. I do find it curious, however, that>the resolution of gauges in fsx and fs9 is primarily cpu bound>and not gpu bound. You'd think that if the high resolution>cockpit avidyne or g1000 is simulating the same avionics>systems as the low resolution one, that the impact would>remain more or less the same if you had a good graphics card,>but this is not the case. Owen could you please address what I>am saying in this paragraph?Hi there,You certainly can adjust the resolution of VC gauges via the panel.cfg on your own, to get a balance that you are seeking.We generally ship with pixel size=1024,1024 (the maximum available), but this can be toned down to 512,512 or 728,728, or whatever gives satisfactory performance and asthetics. This is generally the first place I would recommend anyone who wants to ease performance hit within the VC.I hope I have addressed your concern, and thanks for your support of Eaglesoft Development Group.Best regards,Owen

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The topic from the OP is regarding the Cirrus. The OP has a purchase decison to make given the information he has regarding refund policy and how a given product will perform on HIS machine. Eaglesoft does not debate the relative merit of technique or discuss desired methods posted by non team members. If you feel that our product is unflyable in FSX we suggest that you could have and should have taken advantage of the refund policy.As to affordability..Eaglesoft has a 30% Discount Program to assist customers in transition to FSX. In the case of the Liberty XL2 that amounts to a $22.95 FS9 price and a whopping $16.00 FSX price. If that is not affordable then there is little we can do to please some folks.:-)Finally, suggest you obtain an email address such as Yahoo and reregister in our forum. Contact me and I will personally activate your account.

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I appreciate you letting me know about the refund policy. I have nothing to lose. I will just try a few planes on my system, if they do not run well, I will refund and repurchase after I upgrade. Sounds great to me. thanks for all the input and for great customer support before I am even a customer.Danon O. - -

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Thanks Owen, I will try that.Ron, true but what you say does not reconstitute the ebb and flow of this discussion. As far as your second paragraph goes, that is a corporate-sounding dismissive response. Besides, I decided to hold on to the liberty in the hope that performance would eventually improve with the service pack and directx 10 update. Your point about affordability is condescending, namely the "whopping" and the smilely face, and does not address the meat of what I said anyway in bringing up realair. I'm a customer and customers will make comparisons in any market. If you honestly don't think mine is fair then perhaps you should say why. If not, then I understand why you have chosen to remain silent on the issue but ask you not to be so curt. It's telling that you claim the topic is about the cirrus yet go ahead and bring up the liberty instead of the more expensive cirrus, to which I was directly referring. Assist customers? I think you mean ensure customers, which is fine too. You should listen to what George Carlin has to say about euphemisms. I'm not claiming Eaglesoft doesn't deserve customers, but rather that you should follow Owen's lead and treat past customers, i.e. me, with respect. No I don't think I will contact you since my questions have already been answered.

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>I appreciate you letting me know about the refund policy. I>have nothing to lose. I will just try a few planes on my>system, if they do not run well, I will refund and repurchase>after I upgrade. Sounds great to me. thanks for all the input>and for great customer support before I am even a customer.>>Danon O. - - You are quite welcome Danon...remember we have support forums designed to assist customers as well:-)

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>Thanks Owen, I will try that.>>Ron, true but what you say does not reconstitute the ebb and>flow of this discussion. As far as your second paragraph goes,>that is a corporate-sounding dismissive response. Besides, I>decided to hold on to the liberty in the hope that performance>would eventually improve with the service pack and directx 10>update. Your point about affordability is condescending,>namely the "whopping" and the smilely face, and does not>address the meat of what I said anyway in bringing up realair.>I'm a customer and customers will make comparisons in any>market. If you honestly don't think mine is fair then perhaps>you should say why. If not, then I understand why you have>chosen to remain silent on the issue but ask you not to be so>curt. >>It's telling that you claim the topic is about the cirrus yet>go ahead and bring up the liberty instead of the more>expensive cirrus, to which I was directly referring. Assist>customers? I think you mean ensure customers, which is fine>too. You should listen to what George Carlin has to say about>euphemisms. I'm not claiming Eaglesoft doesn't deserve>customers, but rather that you should follow Owen's lead and>treat past customers, i.e. me, with respect. No I don't think>I will contact you since my questions have already been>answered. >>Your choice as always. We see no point in seeing the thread go OT because you feel the need to express yourself. Frankly, we always try to assist customers to obtain maximum enjoyment of our products. This leaves little time for long winded "discussions" on why customer A feels "slighted" or customer B doesn't understand or agree with our pricing policy.....Hope this helps:-)

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You may see no point, so what. We? Who, team eaglesoft? Owen has already approached things differently from you. The originator of the topic has basically fulfilled his curiosity, so now the set in stone topic as you see it is irrelevant. And since he was discussing potential performance it's not as if what I said was entirely unrelated. I'm not the only one here or in many places who has noticed the oddly poor performance of the liberty. Why not look into what I said about the vm1000 because it is central to that problem instead of saying "Eaglesoft does not debate the relative merit of technique or discuss desired methods posted by non team members". I was actually trying to be constructive. As to why customer a or b etc... sure I commented about pricing. I wasn't forcing or even desiring of you to discuss but hoping that someone from eaglesoft would listen, which has happened. Others may choose to discuss or not. Also what you said makes no sense at all. How could you simultaneously "try to assist customers to obtain maximum enjoyment of (your) products" and yet not address my legitimate concerns which you in fact subordinate to feeling slighted, etc. Anyway, I do hope you take what I say seriously and also include what Owen suggested about the pixel size from the panel.cfg in a revised readme. I don't mean ill will - again, your avidyne is remarkable - but stop insulting me or I'll keep calling you on it. Thanks for that last smiley face. Low blow.

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