6 minutes ago, Ixoye said:

I don't have the Arrow installed anymore, but both the Turbo version and Warrior works fine for me.

What is the last version of the Arrow 3 you flew?

3 minutes ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

This is the standard Arrow ?

Will test it.

Trim and mixture come to mind. It has always needed nose up trim on take-off and a bit of leaning even at low altitude.

Another possibility is a glitch in the state saving = have people tried turning state saving off?

 

I don't remember it doing this the last time I flew it, but since then I have updated it to the latest version with is now 9.0.  I suspect that the update has messed up the handling on takeoff. Shame I didn't keep the older version. 

34 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

OK, I just discovered on approach that I had been flying a two hour flight with one notch of flaps down

Been there done that 😉

7 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

What is the last version of the Arrow 3 you flew?

I do not remember, it was after I bought the Warrior when it was released.

OK - version 0.9.0 standard arrow

Took off from Murchison (528 feet ASL) with -  no flaps, 1.5 degrees nose up trim and about 30% lean (set it to peak RPM on the ground) though leaning only added about 200 rpm.  It is a short field take-off but I have done it before with no flaps when empty so just stuck to my normal procedure. IRL you would add a notch or two of flap to be safe especially if you had passengers.

• No issues with take-off roll.
• Levelled off at 500' AGL (1000' ASL) and got to 130/140 knots straight and level.

Flaps as Bobsk8 mentioned are worth checking. If you forget to raise flaps after landing the state saving will spawn you with them still deployed.  If you do have full flaps it will be unstable on takeoff and have limited top speed.

Also try disabling the state saving in case it has glitched.

Edited September 23, 20214 yr by Glenn Fitzpatrick

48 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

OK, I just discovered on approach that I had been flying a two hour flight with one notch of flaps down.

I did this once -- well, not for the entire 2 hours, just for a few minutes.  That's what I get for not following a checklist.   The positive trim on takeoff is something I've always done with these Piper Arrows.

Tonight hopefully I will have time to get a flight in.  I haven't flown the Arrow since the last MSFS update.  Any recommendations for a short-ish flight in the Turbo Arrow IV?

1 hour ago, Bobsk8 said:

Have you updated yours, or better yet, what version is yours.  I have version 9.0? 

I can;t check a version number as currently MSFS is not installed. I'm cleaning up my old PC and tomorrow I'll get my new system. The installer of the Arrow has version 0.4.0.

49 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

OK, I just discovered on approach that I had been flying a two hour flight with one notch of flaps down. I kept looking at the lever, and it looked like it was all the way down, but I have  tool tips  turned off, and couldn't see that it was up one click. 🤥   I just tried a takeoff with a bit of nose up trim, and that seemed much better. 

So all is ok then?

23 minutes ago, Rimshot said:

I can;t check a version number as currently MSFS is not installed. I'm cleaning up my old PC and tomorrow I'll get my new system. The installer of the Arrow has version 0.4.0.

So all is ok then?

Yes cruise speed is OK, just the swerving on takeoff without a boot full of right rudder. Seems not as bad with some nose up trim. I just tried the Seminole with same control setup, and takeoff run was as straight as an arrow. Guess that is just a Arrow quirk. 

30 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

Yes cruise speed is OK, just the swerving on takeoff without a boot full of right rudder. Seems not as bad with some nose up trim. I just tried the Seminole with same control setup, and takeoff run was as straight as an arrow. Guess that is just a Arrow quirk. 

The arrow does have that wee little knob in the centre console for rudder trim of course,  though I suspect no one uses it for take-off.

I was going to post that I had no right swinging tendency but realised I just kick in a bit of right rudder automatically without thinking about it. However it is not much right rudder maybe 10% or 20% max.

Either way, my test about 30 minutes back on the version 0.9.0 standard Arrow with no flaps, slight nose up, applying power gradually over 1-2 seconds resulted in a perfectly normal take-off for me.

Generally if I have issues on take-off in the Arrow I either have:

• crosswind
• full flaps out,
• the state saving has somehow turned on AP even though it is switched off on the panel, this usually occurs if I have crashed or quit mid air and not shut down the aircraft properly
• I have nose down trim
• or my CoG is out and way too forward.

I did come across some good notes on real life PA28 handling a while back, interestingly they recommend neutral trim but also say keep weight off the nose wheel on take-off roll,  though that recommendation seems to be more to do with avoiding sudden pitch up on rotation at excess speed than anything to do with lateral stability:

http://www.pilotfriend.com/training/flight_training/fxd_wing/piperpa28.htm

 

Edited September 23, 20214 yr by Glenn Fitzpatrick

Redid the flight this morning in the Arrow, followed everyone's advice, bit of nose up trim, slow acceleration on takeoff, and held the centerline with no problem. Found a flaps assignment that didn't belong, and got rid of that, and now cruise speed is spot on.  Thanks for the help. Guess three months away from the Arrow, and I needed a refresher. 

I'm not real world pilot but if I compare the flight characteristics for the JF Arrow compared to other planes of similar ilk in my hanger it just feels weird and wrong imo.  I don't fly it that much.  

2 minutes ago, sidfadc said:

I'm not real world pilot but if I compare the flight characteristics for the JF Arrow compared to other planes of similar ilk in my hanger it just feels weird and wrong imo.  I don't fly it that much.  

It's the other way around.

I would say it feels MORE realistic, though the JF Warrior II  even more so than the Arrow.

Most of the default aircraft are so-so, not awful but not great.  The default c152 is OK but the AH c140 is better.

Out of the low wing GA I own, the Carenado Mooney feels the least like a real aircraft, the P149 and the Grob Tutor are both pretty good but the PA28 Warrior II just "feels" right  (though the PA28 Arrow III is also close).

 

Edited September 24, 20214 yr by Glenn Fitzpatrick