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jozeff

would really like the FSL 320 SL but 210 euro's?..

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4 hours ago, Patco Lch said:

Apologizing is easier then getting permission

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On 10/11/2021 at 12:05 PM, honanhal said:

Sure, as far as it goes (free of charge? Pretty sure they all price ongoing development into costs, or at any rate they should). But none of that exempts them from the rules of the market. They’d get still more return for their efforts if a lower product price over time meant their net sales were higher. No one is saying they should drop prices as a favor to their customers, just that it would be smarter business for them.

You’re right that flight sim addons, as a market, has an unusually large number of “amateur” (in the best sense of the word — the Latin root of which is “love”) development outfits. So what then to make of the fact that it’s one of the few software markets that doesn’t drop prices as software ages? To be honest, I think “flight sim enthusiasts and software engineers may not always have great business acumen” is a more plausible takeaway than “every other software market is doing it wrong,” but that’s just me…

James

I don't know of much software that reduces in price over time. Usually a new version is released, often at a higher price, and the old version retired. Software sold on CD or DVD can find its way into sales, but that's a physical product and a matter for the retailer who has stocks to clear.

The present FSL P3D addons are the latest release, not out of date or facing competition from a better rival. Why should you expect the price to reduce? Also I doubt if Aerosoft would be pleased if FSL reduced their prices. It could wipe out their Airbus sales unless they too cut the price. We'd all lose out if developers went out of business because of a price war.

The idea that the people who run FSL, PMDG, Aerosoft, etc might not have business acumen isn't really born out by the clear evidence of their success. I would also point out that Microsoft and Lockheed Martin also don't reduce their software prices over time. Are they also run by amateurs?

Edited by kevinh

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I don't think the issue here is that everyone expects FSL to automatically reduce the price. From my perspective, I may consider purchasing the FSL Package, but for the fact that MSFS now seems to be the target market for flight simulation. I still use P3dv5 for most of my flying, but I can't justify spending money at the current FSL asking price, because I am not certain as when and if my P3d days may end. This, of course, is solely my choice. Obviously, no one has a crystal ball so I can't predict that. It would seem reasonable to me that there are several folks that think the same way I do, and that they are also hesitant to spend so much on a platform with an uncertain future. Also, since I have the Aerosoft package, and have had it since it was released years ago, I am happy enough with it that I don't need to spend the extra cash. However, I would be tempted to do so if the FSL price were lower. Again, FSL has every right to charge whatever they want, so no complaints here, just an observation. I am just wondering if they are hurting themselves doing so. I suppose that is an answer that only they can determine.

Cheers, Pete

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Pete Solov - Lake in the Hills 3CK

and Schaumburg Regional 06C
Proud AOPA Member - PPL 2001
Real World Piper Cherokee Pilot

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As someone who has the A320, A319, A321 and the SL variants....now the cost was spread out over a few years so didn't seem so bad, however, I really think you should just purchase the A320 and leave it at that.  The differences between the models are very subtle and mostly something experiences in the external model.  I know that there are differences in the RW and developers go on and on about the differences they have programmed in but it really is very difficult to notice from the flight deck.  The SL has the EFB, its way over hyped in my opinion and there is a ton of depth to get into with the base A320.

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6 hours ago, kevinh said:

The present FSL P3D addons are the latest release, not out of date or facing competition from a better rival. Why should you expect the price to reduce? 

For a very simple reason: nearly everyone who's ever going to buy any of FSL's Airbus packages for P3D has already bought them. P3D is a declining market, and FSL is already very well known among P3D users. So who's left for FSL to sell to? People who are aware of FSL's quality, and interested in buying, but not at the current price. You can see some of those people in this thread. (This would be a good place for me to point out that I'm not one of them. I bought all the FSL packages up to the sharklets, and found them to be quite simply the best aircraft ever created for a flight simulator.)

Lowering the price (after a considerable time without a price reduction, allowing all the enthusiasts to buy at full price) would allow FSL to sell to some number of those "holdouts." Leaving the price where it is would ensure they'd lose that potential business. This is Pricing 101, which is why almost every seller of almost every product does this over time.

6 hours ago, kevinh said:

The idea that the people who run FSL, PMDG, Aerosoft, etc might not have business acumen isn't really born out by the clear evidence of their success. I would also point out that Microsoft and Lockheed Martin also don't reduce their software prices over time. Are they also run by amateurs?

Three points. First, Microsoft and LM can and do make major business mistakes, even if they're obviously not "amateurs." Second, Microsoft absolutely does reduce the price of software that hasn't been superseded by a new release (and, ok, not software, but LM discounts its weapons for age, too).

Finally, I think we're about to see just what the measure of FSL's business acumen is. Unless they're getting ready to pull a fully-formed MSFS product rabbit out of their hat, and one that is NOT an A320, they're in a pretty tough spot. The P3D market is in (possibly terminal) decline, they've already sold to almost everyone interested, and if they do intend to enter the MSFS market (which it seems like they may), they've already got a credible competitor who's promising to raise the Airbus bar at the same time as they cut the price in half -- oh, and release in the next few months.

James

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1 hour ago, honanhal said:

Unless they're getting ready to pull a fully-formed MSFS product rabbit out of their hat, and one that is NOT an A320, they're in a pretty tough spot.

Concorde will be the next release and probably their last for P3D. They have zero competition for that so it should be a good seller for them.

Whatever happens after that who knows but I’m staying with P3D for my IFR flights and I suspect many others too.

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Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.2 & v3.4, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 5.2Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
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42 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Concorde will be the next release and probably their last for P3D. They have zero competition for that so it should be a good seller for them.

Whatever happens after that who knows but I’m staying with P3D for my IFR flights and I suspect many others too.

Its definitely not their last...They have an A3XX (that's what they call it as for now) coming up as well. From my guess, it's a 332 with 333 (expansion maybe) or vice versa.

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On 10/11/2021 at 1:46 AM, F737NG said:

There are plenty of developers who charge the same prices now for their products as they charged on release day, which IMO, is just silly.

Not silly when there is nothing out there with so much detail. Lowering the price when you have the best product out there is infact silly imo heh.

Of course people say that might change, but that time will tell if it will really change or if it will remain the same 😉

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1 hour ago, Nocturnal said:

Not silly when there is nothing out there with so much detail. Lowering the price when you have the best product out there is infact silly imo heh.

Of course people say that might change, but that time will tell if it will really change or if it will remain the same 😉

What would be silly in reality is any business decision that doesn’t maximize profits over the long term. Just because something is “the best product out there” doesn’t mean the price is right. And just because the price was right yesterday, doesn’t mean the price is right today. Of course, I do not work for FSL, and I am not qualified to determine what is, in fact, the right price.

Cheers, Pete

Edited by PilotPete99
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Pete Solov - Lake in the Hills 3CK

and Schaumburg Regional 06C
Proud AOPA Member - PPL 2001
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On 10/12/2021 at 7:24 AM, jozeff said:

Haha,  you guys are great. A lot of experienced add-on buying husbands here I guess

 

Ok, if Mr Ainscough says it i certainly have to  buy the plane. I've been reading your comments and advice for years!

cheers

Jozeff

The best euro's spent in the airbus world or any world for that matter 🤣

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André
 

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On 10/11/2021 at 1:34 PM, jozeff said:

Have to persuade the misses though. How do I convince her to agree to me spending this money in the virtual world.

I do so by telling her that I'm going to take real-world flying lessons and that it's going cost a lot more than just one aircraft at X dollars. Works. Every. Time.

🙂

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Joel Murray @ CYVR (actually, somewhere between CYNJ and CZBB, but quite close to CSK8) 

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On 10/10/2021 at 10:26 AM, PilotPete99 said:

Why is it always assumed that if someone thinks the price is too high, that they can’t afford it? Please. There are a lot of things I can afford to buy but will not do so because they appear to be overpriced. 

Cheers, Pete

This is exactly why I don't have this or a PMDG plane. See my signature below I'm not afraid of spending money, but a line has to be drawn somewhere. I hope when MSFS versions are released they reconsider there pricing model.

Edited by TurboKen
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On 10/12/2021 at 8:42 PM, honanhal said:

For a very simple reason: nearly everyone who's ever going to buy any of FSL's Airbus packages for P3D has already bought them. P3D is a declining market, and FSL is already very well known among P3D users. So who's left for FSL to sell to? People who are aware of FSL's quality, and interested in buying, but not at the current price. You can see some of those people in this thread. (This would be a good place for me to point out that I'm not one of them. I bought all the FSL packages up to the sharklets, and found them to be quite simply the best aircraft ever created for a flight simulator.)

Lowering the price (after a considerable time without a price reduction, allowing all the enthusiasts to buy at full price) would allow FSL to sell to some number of those "holdouts." Leaving the price where it is would ensure they'd lose that potential business. This is Pricing 101, which is why almost every seller of almost every product does this over time.

Three points. First, Microsoft and LM can and do make major business mistakes, even if they're obviously not "amateurs." Second, Microsoft absolutely does reduce the price of software that hasn't been superseded by a new release (and, ok, not software, but LM discounts its weapons for age, too).

Finally, I think we're about to see just what the measure of FSL's business acumen is. Unless they're getting ready to pull a fully-formed MSFS product rabbit out of their hat, and one that is NOT an A320, they're in a pretty tough spot. The P3D market is in (possibly terminal) decline, they've already sold to almost everyone interested, and if they do intend to enter the MSFS market (which it seems like they may), they've already got a credible competitor who's promising to raise the Airbus bar at the same time as they cut the price in half -- oh, and release in the next few months.

James

FSL have said they will develop for MSFS. What aircraft I have no idea but I assume it will be Airbus and then Concorde. They offer their products for a premium price because they are deeper and more realistic simulations and will no doubt set that price relative to the MSFS market, which is lower than P3D generally.

You say Microsoft "absolutely does" reduce prices. I can't say I've seen much evidence for that.They absolutely do not do so for flight sim products. The idea this is usual business practice for software simply doesn't stand up. Even if it was the case you forget that businesses like FSL, unlike commercial software providers, don't have to make profits to survive. The labour is mostly provided by volunteers, not paid employees. It's a niche product in an already niche marketplace. You don't sell premium products at bargain prices.

Basically without high quality developers operating in this way high end addons simply would not be available to buy at all. We'd all have to be happy with Aerosoft level products. Not bad by any means but not as satisfying to use as PMDG and FSL.  Whether you want to buy into that is up to you but you can't expect them to reduce their prices according to your expectations.

 

Edited by kevinh
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55 minutes ago, kevinh said:

FSL have said they will develop for MSFS. What aircraft I have no idea but I assume it will be Airbus and then Concorde.

That’s news to me. Maybe I missed a statement in the Announcements section. Care to provide a link? They said shortly after MSFS was made public they would only do one 64-bit Concorde. I’ve seen nothing to change that.

57 minutes ago, kevinh said:

Even if it was the case you forget that businesses like FSL, unlike commercial software providers, don't have to make profits to survive.

Er, yes they do. I know one programmer who has given up their day job and is 100% employed by FSL.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.2 & v3.4, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 5.2Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
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6 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

That’s news to me. Maybe I missed a statement in the Announcements section. Care to provide a link? They said shortly after MSFS was made public they would only do one 64-bit Concorde. I’ve seen nothing to change that.

Er, yes they do. I know one programmer who has given up their day job and is 100% employed by FSL.

I guess the new FSL Configurator is first step Ray

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