5 hours ago, cmpbellsjc said:

People would just find another way to kill each other, the gun is just an easier, more efficient way to do it. Next up would be a stabbing epidemic. 

Unfortunately even if guns were banned everywhere, it wouldn’t solve the criminal element of shady people finding a source for them.

Exactly. This is why crazy people in America don't walk into police stations and start randomly shooting people. Instead they walk into schools, and other no gun zones, where nobody is armed and will shoot back.

12 hours ago, birdguy said:

That doesn't absolve Alec Baldwin however.  It makes the AD culpable, but so is Baldwin for not checking himself.

 

Yes Noel, we know that's your opinion. And if I had been Baldwin I certainly would have checked myself.

And we know that some of us are aware that a movie set is a unique environment with unique difficulties and that protocols are in place that have kept the number of deaths to just two or three over many decades and that they only occurred when the effective safety protocols were ignored.

And that's what the lawyers and cops will look at, whether Baldwin followed the accepted protocols for the industry and if he broke any laws.

In fact according to most lawyers, Baldwin is unlikely to be charged. Whether his production company will be liable for an unsafe set, or employing someone not fit for the job, is another matter.

We've both posted our opinions on Baldwins personal culpability and some agree with you and some agree with me that its not that simple. So no point in us keep stating the same thing or it will drive us nuts. 😁

 

Alec Baldwin shooting: Criminal charges may be filed, prosecutor says

Quote

 

They said there was "some complacency" around safety on the set.

Presenting the department's initial findings, Sante Fe County Sheriff Adan Mendoza said: "We suspect there were other live rounds found on set." "We're going to determine how those got there, why they were there, because they shouldn't have been there," he added.

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

Ms Gutierrez-Reed, meanwhile, told investigators that guns had been safely secured shortly before the shooting but ammunition had not been. She said guns were usually kept in a safe that only a few people had access to.

"We're going to try to determine exactly how [this] happened and if they should have known that there was a live round in that firearm," Sheriff Mendoza said.

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

Mr Baldwin and the film's producers have hired a private law firm to conduct an investigation into the circumstances surrounding the shooting, according to the Reuters news agency.

Several legal experts, however, have said it is unlikely that criminal charges will be filed against Mr Baldwin.

 

 

 

Quote

"Obviously I think the industry has had a record recently of being safe," Sheriff Mendoza told reporters. "[But] I think there are some safety issues that need to be addressed by the industry and possibly by the state of New Mexico."

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59068976

 

Edited October 28, 20214 yr by martin-w

11 hours ago, Matthew Kane said:

What I don't get, is Alec Baldwin who has a history of anti NRA and pro gun control beliefs, and yet here he is at his age co-writing, producing, lead acting in a film that glorifies guns. Hollywood is a bizarre hypocritical place indeed 

Just leave these Westerns to the likes of Clint Eastwood and Co, I think that is the lesson learned here

 

Clint Eastwood was pro stricter gun legislation too. Not sure its hypocritical. Its fantasy, a story, not real. People who write and/or act in war movies aren't advocating war. People who write and/or act in movies about nuclear holocaust aren't fans of the prospect. And we don't know what the message is in the movie called Rust. 

6 hours ago, cmpbellsjc said:

People would just find another way to kill each other, the gun is just an easier, more efficient way to do it. Next up would be a stabbing epidemic. 

Unfortunately even if guns were banned everywhere, it wouldn’t solve the criminal element of shady people finding a source for them.

 

Exactly, guns are an easier more efficient way to do it, as you say. Hence why research has definitively shown that the more guns in a society the higher all cause mortality. Even suicide rates are higher because a gun is more likely to be available in the 15 minute window when most commit suicide. And the chances of saving someone who attempts suicide with a gun is extremely low.

So yes, no guns equates to fewer people dying in society. As you say, criminals do find a away, but the number of guns is lower and therefore deaths are lower even if they do find a way. They find a way in the UK too, but not in high numbers, hence why our per-capita deaths from firearms are miniscule. 

So yes, I think the person you quoted does have a point, but its not applicable to the US. The reason its not applicable to the US (and I mean no disrespect) is that the US is addicted to guns. Its enshrined in American culture. Many Americans love guns. And indeed, there are those who live in some parts of the US, for example Alaska, where they have to hunt to be able to survive through the winter. Then there are the numerous wild animals that are a danger of course. 

Guns are not going to disappear from the US, but hopefully the wishes of 60% of the population will come to fruition and better legislation will be in place to curtail the insanity of mass shootings, accidental deaths, children killing themselves with guns etc.

5 hours ago, Matthew Kane said:

And replace it with another, for example Hannah Clarke and her children, to be honest I would rather be shot to death then be burned to death, but doesn't matter the method the outcome is the same

 

Method and outcome is the same... but guns are designed to kill with ease, with one twitch of the trigger finger. It makes it easy. Easy equates to more likely. Its the ease with which anybody can kill with a gun that makes them so deadly and increases the number of people killed in society where guns are in high numbers. 

If a nut job is in the street with a knife, he might kill one or two. But then people move away, and some brave souls might disarm him. Now consider the outcome with a gun and several magazines... devastation results, mass murder results. 

12 hours ago, dave2013 said:

There are tens of millions of Americans who own firearms and use them lawfully and safely.  It's just a pathetic few who harm people with them.  The problem is that even if we ban guns, the criminals, who by their very nature don't obey the law, will still get their hands on them.

 

Banning guns across the entire US would reduce, not eliminate, deaths, just as it has elsewhere in the world, like the UK for example. But yes, not really feasible and its certainly not going to happen.

.The question is why deaths from guns is eight time higher per capita in the US than Canada. And why The District of Columbia has the highest rates in the entire US and why Louisiana has such high rates. I'm wondering if this is due to more lax gun laws there? 

Man, 19 pages and over 70 of the posts or 5 pages are from one user...  If we broke their single posts responding to 5 people at once in a single post almost half of this entire thread is probably one person.  Someone certainly has an opinion on this LOL

Has this run it's course yet?  We aren't changing the US firearm mindset here on Avsim LOL .  Nor are we going to determine what happens to Alec despite our attempts here on the Flightsim forums.  

Maybe time to agree to disagree and go back to living within the constraints of our own countries laws?  

Edited October 28, 20214 yr by psolk

This thread has gone off the news rail and is now on the rail of politics.  Past time to close it.

Edited October 28, 20214 yr by stans

27 minutes ago, psolk said:

Maybe time to agree to disagree and go back to living within the constraints of our own countries laws?

Isn't that like walking into the hangar lounge and telling folks to stop the storytelling or talking about anything controversial?

6 minutes ago, stans said:

This thread has gone off the news rail and is now on the rail of politics.  Past time to close it.

And what exactly is the "news rail". It seems to me this thread is now more about philosophy than politics. But ours is not to decide.

17 minutes ago, stans said:

This thread has gone off the news rail and is now on the rail of politics.  Past time to close it.

Being a forum moderator can be a thankless and frustrating task, if you feel that you are suited to this, I feel sure that Avsim would welcome a new volunteer.
I would agree with Doug that the discussion is indeed more of philisophy, the mention of a past politician's name does not make the discussion political.

Edited October 28, 20214 yr by Reader

54 minutes ago, psolk said:

Man, 19 pages and over 70 of the posts or 5 pages are from one user...  If we broke their single posts responding to 5 people at once in a single post almost half of this entire thread is probably one person.  Someone certainly has an opinion on this LOL

 

Do you mean me? And I cant believe you went to the trouble of counting. Is there a limit to how many times a person can respond in a thread? And yes, I do have an opinion on this.

Edited October 28, 20214 yr by martin-w

17 minutes ago, W2DR said:

Isn't that like walking into the hangar lounge and telling folks to stop the storytelling or talking about anything controversial?

Quote

Please refrain from controversial topics...politics, religion, conspiracy theories, COVID etc.  Topics that elicit or are deemed by staff likely to elicit heated argument, contention, or otherwise objectionable banter will be removed from view.  We allow some latitude, but please remember that, first and foremost, this is a flight-simulator oriented site frequented by people from all walks of life.

Well it does appear that is sort of the goal of these discussions on Avsim.   After 20 pages of debating gun safety, gun locks, removing guns from society and now progressing into Suicide numbers, accidental shootings etc seem to have crossed that bridge.  Dead Horse...  This started out about a single incident and has expanded to politics and philosophy on firearms.  

Edited October 28, 20214 yr by psolk

52 minutes ago, psolk said:

We aren't changing the US firearm mindset here on Avsim LOL

 

Nobody is trying to "LOL". Its about friends on a forum talking about something that's current and interests them. If that's not your cup of tea, then don't click your mouse on the thread and go and do some simminmg. 👍 Its not compulsory to read or contribute. 

13 minutes ago, psolk said:

Well it does appear that is sort of the goal of these discussions on Avsim.   After 20 pages of debating gun safety, gun locks, removing guns from society and now progressing into Suicide numbers, accidental shootings etc seem to have crossed that bridge.  Dead Horse... 

 

The moderators will decide that not you. And thus far all we have been asked is not to debate the second amendment, in fact the moderator in charge has joined in the debate. Suicide numbers and accidental shooting are statistics, not politics unless you want to make it political by debating the political response to those statistics, which you will note, we are not doing. 

Again, don't click your mouse on the thread if you aren't happy. All you have achieved now is to cause ill feeling. Not necessary.

Edited October 28, 20214 yr by martin-w