OK, so like a few here I was super excited for 5.3 when it appeared out of nowhere.  I was on 4.5 that had been stable for years but figured it was finally time to make the jump.  Installed on a brand new M.2, clean windows install and nothing but nightmares a lot of which appear to be self induced since...

It started here:

So interestingly enough even with my system once I tried the settings in Mitch's thread I loaded up the PMDG 777 at DD KEWR it absolutely crushed my system.  Not Mitch's fault clearly but the loading was so delayed with just a white screen showing I thought it was hanging but it was just loading.  Once I got it loaded it looked incredible but performance started to really degrade.  Once airborne it got worse until my sim looked like one of those videos people have been posting where it is literally 1-2FPS and huge pauses.  That's the down side.  So then I killed EA altogether but still no change.  I dialed back some settings and saw incremental improvement but the sim was still really horribly stuttering and pausing. 

The bright side is by dialing settings back I saw incremental improvement but then I turned off  Auto Exposure and External Vehicle Cast/Receive shadows and BANG my sim came back to life...  So I am now wondering if the more complex birds like the PMDG may have an issue with one of those settings.  (spoiler, that wasn't it) 

5 hours into that flight the system was crushed again and I cancelled out.  That led to this:

 I was already on V.30 which addressed traffic, V.31 was for the runway lights during the day.... I was able to replicate the issue with .31 as well.

With that being said I pulled my hair out yesterday trying to figure this out. I am on a brand new vanilla Win10 install. As I mentioned earlier my system was absolutely being brought to it's knees, down to 1-2 FPS, painful to even look at. It seemed to happen about an hour into the flight out of nowhere.  I tried every setting in P3D, reduced everything and it appeared to resolve itself, then 3-4 hours later it happened again and this time I exited out of P3d entirely in frustration.

Then I stress tested my machine, maxxed my CPU temps at 80C, Ran 3DMark and finished 99% of all machines despite a bit on the low end for my specific specs.  I tried adjusting the BIOS, played with C States.  Played with CPU affinities, priorities etc etc etc.  I disabled Road traffic in P3D, same result after ~ an hour of flying, installed the latest hotfix and had the exact same issue.  I feel bad for my wife with how frustrated I was yesterday!!    

Then I noticed incredibly high Network interface usage while P3D was active.  Hmmm  This isn't MSFS so what was pinning my network interface?  A bit more digging and I noticed the OneDrive and Bluetooth icons in my systray.  Ok, I had those disabled on prior installs so lets go ahead and shut them down as well.  In prior iterations and installs of Windows it OneDrive would load into systray however it was disabled.  It turns out that behavior appears to have changed.  When Windows forces you to use Hello (which I always disable and go back to a local account login anyway) that by default enables OneDrive to sync your files tied to your hotmail account.  I had a notification in OneDrive that ALL of my files were successfully backed up.  The only time that could have happened was while P3D was running though.  I "believe" the backup process mid sim absolutely crippled P3D.  I was able to get the same results I've seen in others videos.  1-2 FPS with huge 5-6 second pauses between frames.  Thus far with OneDrive disabled I've had no issues what-so-ever.  Able to crank my settings back up, re-enable EA and I am exactly 60 minutes into a 10 hour haul as I type this...  Fingers crossed I'll be back 9 hours from now to confirm but as of right now performance is showing no issues or slow downs.  Fingers crossed!  

NOPE!!!   not 5 minutes later I got the white screen and Device Hung with 496.76 and the entire system froze...    Man, I was rock solid on 4.5 for years prior to this. Feeling gutted at this point. 

So then there was MORE digging and troubleshooting, reverted to 471.96, added registry entries but then I found all of this...

Turns out I was using the add-on.xml files from P3DV4 into V5 once I had changed pointers in the files etc.  Some of those had a layer number associated with them.  So P3D ended up with double scenery entries in some cases.  It would try to add the scenery as it should but then ALSO add an entry at the layer number from my old install.  Hence when I scrolled down I would see the second entry with either a (1) or a (!) and it was greyed out.  

In addition for some reason ORBX was getting added twice.  I had done a verify files this morning and thought all was ok but somehow ORBX was getting added directly to the scenery.cfg and also being added via scenery_add_ons.xml so I had double ORBX entries as well...  

I have now removed Orbx entirely,

restored scenery.cfg

restored scenery_add_ons.xml 

Modified everything in my V5 Add-Ons directory to ensure the add-on.xml is correct

Added everything except Orbx back one at a time

Verified everything in my Add Ons folder, my scenery.cfg and my scenery_add_ons_xml  are correct.   

Then I went to delete shaders but they are in another directory altogether in in %appdata% Local not Roaming so that's another directory to check.  

Now I need to figure out what to do with Orbx.  I already have UT and GEPro, do I even use Orbx?  I own Orbx global, how does that pair with UTX and GEPro?  

So indeed, despite having the exact same symptoms as the others posting I #1 had a definite issue with OneDrive syncing that presented as a P3D issue "and" I had somehow hosed my own add-ons, scenery.cfg and scenery_add_ons.xml without even realizing it.... 

Part of the issue is say what we want about MSFS and it's forced updates but after really playing with P3D the past few days having files in appdata Local and Roaming, P3D root, /Program Data and the Add-Ons directory is a nightmare... Client, Content, Scenery, Full install, delete user files, delete shaders, wait for developer to issue point update,  it is just so much more complicated than getting a notification an update is available, clicking yes and the entire process being automated but that is another discussion and at least it's not forced, I chose this pain.  I can't count the amount of times I went looking in my %appdata%roaming/LM directory only to realize that there was another file buried somewhere in the /Program Data/Lockheed Martin directory as well. Add-ons.xml being used by scenery_add_ons.xml, a separate add-ons.cfg a separate V5 Add Ons directory,  I would actually say I find this entire upgrade process with P3D to be a nightmare but at least it's not "forced."

For now I am simply wondering what I do about Orbx, do I just leave things as is and did all of this troubleshooting actually resolve the issue or am I still going to have the same issues being reported on the forum 😞  

It's been a real roller coaster, I can verify everything on my own system now at least.  If it crashes again I have no where else to look and unfortunately I don't think going back to 4.5 is even an option after I de-activated and re-registered everything to the new 5.3 install.  

Not sure what to think anymore but I've gone from ecstatic to upset to frustrated to gutted with every failed flight.  

For reference I am using DD KEWR, PMDG 777, ASP3D and FSDT PHNL for these flights.  UT and GEPro are installed.  No shader mods etc... Same system as 4.5 just a new windows install, all the same HW, all the same modules, FSUIPC6, LINDA, OCPAV5.  

So yeah, from ecstatic to exhausted in 2 days without a single successful flight.  Going to try another flight now I've fixed my own files but honestly there is no enjoyment in this anymore, it's just waiting for something to go wrong and what's frustrating is everything can be going great right until it's not... At some point I will need to just step away and throw in the towel to defeat and figure out where I go from here, just not there yet... 

 

Edited December 26, 20214 yr by psolk

Sounds more like the new install of Windows has been the greatest issue what with it backing up to the cloud while in use.

Take a step back and have a break, go and do something else and comeback to it when you've cleared your mind or slept on it.

Also one thing at a time (and make notes), too many items at once and everything can become a jumbled swirl.

Then back at it.

Isn't there a new GPU scheduler and full screen optomistations for configuration ? (windows).

Also assuming it was backing up the user profile folders ? e.g. Documents etc. ?

Which is also the default location for P3D add-ons.

P3D is no different to FSX or typically any other program when it comes to where config files are kept as it's Windows and MS who make the development recommendations.

You've got your,

• \AppData\Roaming\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v<num>
• \ProgramData\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v<num>
• \Documents\Prepar3D v<num> Files
• \Documents\Prepar3D v<num> Add-ons

and of course the location where P3D is installed which ideally is not the "Program Files" directory.

I'm not sure how your Orbx installs could get into both a library and the scenery.cfg but manually editing config files can certainly lead things astray, on that note, Notepad++ is an ideal text editor and can also easily manage the UTF-8 encoding needed by P3D.

Using the Lorby "P3D Addon Organiser" ? recommended if not already using and makes it far easier to have visibility and manage both scenery.cfg and add-ons.

Orbx Central Installed ? it should be the go to tool to manage the Orbx products.

One thing I do recommend is to not use the default add-ons location, although it's nice to have your files backed up, a few sceneries etc. in the default location and... well nothing like syncing a couple of hundred GB over a WAN link.

Cheers

Appreciate the support and feedback.  I think I have hosed it so bad at this point I am just blowing everything away and starting from scratch...   Shame on me.  Not a good day.  

Hey Paul -   Take this for what's it worth from an old "Windows Geek". Never, ever, and without fail do anything with One Drive or let Windows sync or backup anything. There are far better solutions.........Doug

53 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

The only way I could help at this point is if I actually was sitting in front of your computer(s).

P3D is no more complicated than MSFS or XP11 for me and I push the boundaries in P3D well beyond what MSFS even supports.

Cheers, Rob.

EDIT: an no it doesn't require a software engineer, just a methodical approach 

Yeah, I think I got a bit too haphazard today once I got frustrated.  Multiple changes at once, hence why I definitely put this on me not P3D... Bright side is I had my 4.5 drive backed up, I purchased additional licenses for the SW I had de-activated already so I can use all of it legally on both windows installs while I have 4.5 and 5.3 running.  I also tried to shortcut where possible and move things from 4.5 to 5.3 so who knows what I messed up.  Hence even naming the topic Self induced, whatever the sim is doing corrupting it this badly is all on me.... 

My comments around complicated do come from being away from the innards of P3D for a while.  4.5 has been so stable for so long I haven't touched it in years and since MSFS while I despise the forced updates I've been spoiled by the update process and not worrying about "how" to update, do I need Client, Content, Scenery, Full install, what do I uninstall first, do I run delete user generated files etc etc.  For all it's shortcomings (many) I do prefer how simple the Community Folder and upgrade processes have been for me in MSFS.  Go to store, click update, done but by the same token some have had massive issues with the MSFS update process AND it's forced so tomato/tomato (pronounced differently LOL)  It's not about what the sim supports but I saw your other post and quite frankly while methodical this is absolutely "complicated" for an upgrade process period...  My customers complain if there is more than two steps to an upgrade process, this is 9 independent of verifying all of your add-ons. 

A 9 step upgrade process is actually more detailed than what most software engineers I know ever have to do for a point upgrade let alone the average end user. There is also zero indication what to back up prior to ensure things don't get blown away for the user, it is not user friendly at all and most sys admins would be up in arms if you showed them this as an upgrade process for a single application.  

Posted Friday at 02:35 AM

On my main FS PC I did the following without any issues (none):

1.  Uninstall P3D v5.3 Scenery via Win10 Add and Remove programs

2.  Installed P3D V5.3 HF1 (28131) Scenery

3. Uninstall P3D V5.3 Content via Win10 Add and Remove Programs

4.  Installed P3D V5.3 HF1 (28131) Content

5.  Uninstall P3D V5.3 Client via Win10 Add and Remove Programs

6.  Installed P3D V5.3 HF1 (28131) Client

7. Ran Orbx Central - Help - Sync

8.  Made sure all my add-ons that need version specific updates have been updated to support 28131

9.  Start P3D

Cheers, Rob.

49 minutes ago, W2DR said:

Hey Paul -   Take this for what's it worth from an old "Windows Geek". Never, ever, and without fail do anything with One Drive or let Windows sync or backup anything. There are far better solutions.........Doug

Totally agree!!!  I didn't realize with the new Windows Hello install (which I hate) that OneDrive is not only started but you are logged in and it is backing up by default...   I had changed to local login but OneDrive and MS were still doing there thing with my account in the background... (shocker)   

Today I just feel like a geek LOL...  

Thanks Doug, Cheers Rob!

 

PS, @Rob_Ainscoughwhen I do install tomorrow (from scratch) what is the order for ORBX Base, Toposim Mesh, GE Pro and all the UT series?  Do I even need all of them anymore?  I would imagine it should be those core sceneries/textures then airport sceneries then GSX then AIG?  Sound about right? I would imagine when you do this from scratch you install one thing at a time launch P3D and close it to save before installing the next?  To your point I want to be as methodical as possible! 

Edited December 27, 20214 yr by psolk

I just had my 2nd very similar issue.  This is the same issue others have been very vocal about ever since the 5.3 HF.  Pre hotfix I was totally fine.  

 

 

Paul...I have the latest P3D running fabulously on a 12 year old Dell XPS 730x system, with only the GPU having been upgraded from the original that shipped in 2008.  So, if I can get performance from this version that has me raving and frothing at the mouth...then hang in there...SOMETHING is amiss...and that something can be addressed....as Rob stated, and I use...is the Methodical Approach to a problem....a case of 24, lock myself in the Den...and get to it. Usually, the problem is solved way before I get passed four or five bottles of brew....  So, most of my problems with a new version are four-brew approved...hang in there...

Ses

5 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Don't know what those are?  

For Orbx I installed Global and Libraries first ... install to Library fold and NOT into P3D when prompted by Orbx OC ... all TE's, Australia V2, HD Trees/Flora and a Cityscapes and a bunch of airports ... no Vector, no other regions (yet).  Yes to GSX, AIG, GIT (Goflight Interface Tool), AI Lights Reborn, Virtual Avionics (PC and iPad), LittleNavMap (network PC), HiFi ASP3D (network PC), Reality XP GNS/GTN, Navigraph, iFly, PMDG, FSLabs, Maddog, Quality Wings, JustFlight 146, MJC Q400, ChasePlane, Immersion products, many airports from other vendors but I'm "trying" to stick to just PBR airports or more recent airports.

If you go the clean full install route, make sure you delete the 5 P3D folders AFTER you complete the full uninstall of P3D.  Yes, I tend to add ONE add-on then run P3D to make sure the add-on is working before I proceed to installing another add-on.  P3D can sometimes exhibit a nasty habit of hiding the "Add the Add-On" prompt behind the P3D Splash screen just click on the splash screen to get the prompt to show/focus.

Since you mentioned "Backup", I'm assuming you have disabled Microsoft OneDrive?  Also assume you don't have Compress drives enabled?  Also assume you disabled HAGS?  For good measure you might want to do manual download of nVidia drivers, do DDU in safe mode (network disconnected), install nVidia drivers on reboot (not in safe mode), reboot after install and connect network (I just unplug my NIC cable).

BUT, before you do any of this, it's important you do some stability testing of your hardware.  Run Cinebench R23 Multi-threaded for 30 minutes.  Run 3DMark stress test for another 30 minutes.  Finally run Prime95 for 30 minutes.  Read the Disclaimers for these stability testing tools and don't blame me if your 3090 goes pop 😉 

Cheers, Rob.

EDIT: I would leave AIG until last, that's a long install process.

Truly appreciate you taking the time @Rob_Ainscough!   GE is Ground Environment Pro, UT is the Ultimate Terrain Series, UTX Canada, North America, Europe and Toposim is strictly mesh.  I only have ORBX Global so wondering how all of these add-ons play together.  In 4.5 I had Toposim below UTX and ORBX layered above, then my scenery then AIG.  I will probably try to replicate that in 5.3 unless someone chimes in otherwise.  I also wonder what of those add-ons the other users experiencing issues are using.  UTX is a major add-on in terms of what it is modifying and it does not specifically say anything other than V5 compatible.  Nothing about 5.3...    Similarly GE PROX only shows support through V4...  Toposim Mesh as well. 

So now I am questioning whether these should even be added to 5.x and if they are even necessary.  Does Orbx TE series replace all of these?  @Ray Proudfoot I believe you are an ORBX user, by any chance do you know? 

I really made a lot of rookie errors here.  I was installing to default locations, put ORBX into P3D directly, didn't check for V5.3 specific compatibility, tried to take shortcuts and manually edited files. If you could manage to get it wrong I think I did LOL  

I did run the Stress tests, system has no issues what-so-ever.  I think my DDR43200 is a bit lacking for my CPU/GPU combo but it was still rock solid and the only time I've seen my CPU hit 79C...  It sits around 55C with my MSI Meg S360 cooler in P3D so I know the CPU was being worked...  System was 99% of all systems in 3DMark performance testing in DX11 and 12 despite being on the lower end of the 12700/3080ti combo by ~800 points.  

Thank you @Rob_Ainscough really appreciate you sharing your knowledge.  

44 minutes ago, psolk said:

So now I am questioning whether these should even be added to 5.x and if they are even necessary.  Does Orbx TE series replace all of these?  @Ray Proudfoot I believe you are an ORBX user, by any chance do you know? 

Paul, I don't have any True Earth products. All I have from Orbx is FTX Global, AUS v2 and around 15 airports.

I do have Ultimate Terrain X for Europe, North America and Caribbean. Those are old products designed for FSX but work perfectly in P3D. They're replacement land class with detailed coastlines, rivers towns etc. I don't know how TE compares to UTX.

I have FTX Global well down the priority just above the default scenery. Orbx airports are also well down but above the UTX scenery. Layering is not critical for airports but I find it helpful to keep FlyTampa and others from the same company together mainly so I can see what I have from each easily. It doesn't affect performance.

As far as I can see TE products remain compatible with all versions of P3D as they're enhanced land class. I think that's the word for it.

LATER: I installed ORBX directly into P3D rather than to an external location. Don't think it does any harm. Just alllows you to utilise SSD space better.

Edited December 27, 20214 yr by Ray Proudfoot
Additional info

46 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Paul, I don't have any True Earth products. All I have from Orbx is FTX Global, AUS v2 and around 15 airports.

I do have Ultimate Terrain X for Europe, North America and Caribbean. Those are old products designed for FSX but work perfectly in P3D. They're replacement land class with detailed coastlines, rivers towns etc. I don't know how TE compares to UTX.

I have FTX Global well down the priority just above the default scenery. Orbx airports are also well down but above the UTX scenery. Layering is not critical for airports but I find it helpful to keep FlyTampa and others from the same company together mainly so I can see what I have from each easily. It doesn't affect performance.

As far as I can see TE products remain compatible with all versions of P3D as they're enhanced land class. I think that's the word for it.

LATER: I installed ORBX directly into P3D rather than to an external location. Don't think it does any harm. Just alllows you to utilise SSD space better.

Thank you as always Ray greatly appreciated!

41 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

LATER: I installed ORBX directly into P3D rather than to an external location. Don't think it does any harm. Just alllows you to utilise SSD space better.

I would not do that. I installed all my Orbx in to a library on the same SSD as P3D but in a separate folder.

The benefit is that ORBX will not be wiped out during a normal upgrade, unless you do a nuclear delete all folders.

It was not touched during the latest upgrades and although I did a verify to make sure, everything worked first time.

3 minutes ago, IanHarrison said:

I would not do that. I installed all my Orbx in to a library on the same SSD as P3D but in a separate folder.

The benefit is that ORBX will not be wiped out during a normal upgrade, unless you do a nuclear delete all folders.

It was not touched during the latest upgrades and although I did a verify to make sure, everything worked first time.

Ian, I have all my Orbx 'sfuff' in the P3D root, except for the Library that will not install other than via a Library, and nothing got ruined. I merely re-verified and all was as before...and I have around 20 or so XML add'on's in the Add On folder that also were left intact.

Edited December 27, 20214 yr by Sesquashtoo

1 minute ago, IanHarrison said:

I would not do that. I installed all my Orbx in to a library on the same SSD as P3D but in a separate folder.

The benefit is that ORBX will not be wiped out during a normal upgrade, unless you do a nuclear delete all folders.

It was not touched during the latest upgrades and although I did a verify to make sure, everything worked first time.

Understood. It takes a few minutes to run the Verify Files option which brings things back as they were. I probably should devote more time to understanding the Orbx methodology but for now I leave well alone.

Currently enroute from Moscow to Paris in the PMDG737 trying to force this stutter-fest. Currently over Lithuania and all is well 1h 12m into the flight.

28 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Understood. It takes a few minutes to run the Verify Files option which brings things back as they were. I probably should devote more time to understanding the Orbx methodology but for now I leave well alone.

Currently enroute from Moscow to Paris in the PMDG737 trying to force this stutter-fest. Currently over Lithuania and all is well 1h 12m into the flight.

So sounds like we are both running UTX and ORBX Global.  The only other "major" add-on I was using you are not is GEPROX which is texture replacement. 

Without knowing all of the add-ons and settings each user experiencing the issues are running it is very difficult to find a common denominator  (my 8th grade math teacher would be proud 😉 ) although there has to be something common across all of these people having the issue even if it is in one of the add-ons not the core sim.  Too many people reporting the same results for it to be system specific in my opinion unless everyone else botched their installs as bad as I did LOL!  

12 minutes ago, psolk said:

Without knowing all of the add-ons and settings each user experiencing the issues are running it is very difficult to find a common denominator  (my 8th grade math teacher would be proud 😉 ) although there has to be something common across all of these people having the issue even if it is in one of the add-ons not the core sim.

If this is a problem in P3D it has to be reproducible by LM if it’s to be identified and fixed. That means one thing. Those experiencing the problem have to use a default aircraft and stop using weather injection programs like ASP3D. They don’t necessarily need to switch off their scenery because I suspect that isn’t the cause.

It’s probably a combination of lighting and effects settings in P3D. Keep it as default as you can and if a problem can be reproduced consistently feed that back to LM.