Navigraph 2021 survey is out

[Noel 4,503]

7 hours ago, uwespeed said:

thanks so much for the confirmation that MSFS 2020 is a game

Well you need to have something to make you feel good about XP for sure because you're in a real minority.   For one reason or another despite XP being around since the dawn of time there are currently 3x the number of posts in the P3D and even the very new MSFS subforums, just a surrogate marker for interest.  

Get on over to this thread if you can vote honestly, that is if you are now or ever were a real world pilot, and actually have used all of the 'gameulators' referred to in the poll, FSX/P3D/XP/MSFS, and support your gameulator of choice, presumably XP-11.  I'm a little surprised XP is as low as it is, and that despite MSFS being as immature and incomplete as it is still sees the most # users--which is very telling for just how good it is, for RW pilots.  

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/612362-rw-pilots-who-have-used-all-of-these-xpp3dfsxmsfs-ran/

When the poll closes in a few weeks I will create an identical one for people to vote in who were never RW pilots.

 

[mjrhealth 820]

3 minutes ago, Noel said:

Well you need to have something to make you feel good about XP for sure because you're in a real minority.   For one reason or another despite XP being around since the dawn of time there are currently 3x the number of posts in the P3D and even the very new MSFS subforums, just a surrogate marker for interest.  

Get on over to this thread if you can vote honestly, that is if you are now or ever were a real world pilot, and actually have used all of the 'gameulators' referred to in the poll, FSX/P3D/XP/MSFS, and support your gameulator of choice, presumably XP-11.  I'm a little surprised XP is as low as it is, and that despite MSFS being as immature and incomplete as it is still sees the most # users--which is very telling for just how good it is, for RW pilots.  

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/612362-rw-pilots-who-have-used-all-of-these-xpp3dfsxmsfs-ran/

When the poll closes in a few weeks I will create an identical one for people to vote in who were never RW pilots.

 

What has number of posts got to do with anything. There is really nothing here for Xplane users, just the same ms promotion, which we dont come here to read about. And frankly no one wsnts to come here to read the same garbage over and over,  so your poll will be absolutely meaningless even it makes uou feel proud of yourself

[mSparks 2,086]

16 minutes ago, Noel said:

currently 3x the number of posts in the P3D and even the very new MSFS subforums, just a surrogate marker for interest.  

Surrogate for things to complain about you mean.

XP tends to be quiet for the same reason csgo or warthunder is quiet. Stuff just works.

16 minutes ago, Noel said:

because you're in a real minority

Meanwhile, the stats say 53% of flightsinners fly XP11 "often".

that's a majority thank you very much.

16 minutes ago, Noel said:

 I'm a little surprised XP is as low as it is

Im not. There is a concerted effort to keep people disincentivised from even trying the sim that for those using it msfs wasnt interesting or exciting.

Some might even say a paid for campaign.

Edited December 31, 2021 by mSparks

[RXP 2,338]

@Noel

Speaking of number of users, this is highly unscientific, but there is 1 figure which I find interesting: the screenshot forum!

- Avsim.com 134,332 posts and 19,000 (763 pages of 25 topics) since 27 APR 2003
(first post: https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/147106-boeing-747-400/ )

- X-Plane.org 110.900 posts and 4,307 topics since 15 MAY 2002
(first post: https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/4863-olbia-sardegna-italy-4/ )

 

So relatively speaking, Avsim screenshots forum has 4x more topics but covering all simulators (though mostly MSFT series) whereas X-Plane.org is mostly (if not only) about X-Plane. I honestly don't know what conclusions to draw from this, but the proportion seems correct and nothing to be shy about for X-Plane?

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by RXP

[Noel 4,503]

Well, my invites were taken down because of fear of thin-skinned people coming unglued.  Sad, really.

[Noel 4,503]

I have exactly ZERO interest in 'promoting' one gameulator over another, but enjoy seeing what each have to offer.  I am excited to see how XP12 grapples with clouds and weather as clearly this is a big challenge to get right.  It appears P3D 5.3 users still aren't that convinced w/ EA and their version of volumentric clouds.  For me, cloud depiction and weather are a full 1/3 of the entire package to get very right, aeronautical fidelity and SDK support another 1/3, and scenery and lighting the remaining 1/3.  Right now MSFS for me gets 4.5 of 10 for clouds/weather, 6.0 for AF, and 9.0 for scenery.   It has a ways to go and the next 4-6 months *should* be very telling.

[mSparks 2,086]

9 minutes ago, Noel said:

I have exactly ZERO interest in 'promoting' one gameulator over another, but enjoy seeing what each have to offer.

FYI I wasn't accusing you - I was warning you.

I thought of/pinged you because I know/remembered you were one of the P3D -> MSFS people who hadnt tried XP while we were discussing that the majority of P3D users between this navigraph survey and the 2019 one probably went to MSFS without even trying XP..

Edited December 31, 2021 by mSparks

[fogboundturtle 2,708]

Why are you guys even arguing about ? I think a lot of MSFS users flies Xplane and Vice-versa. This survey is pretty meaningless to me. It's the best of both world really. Sometimes, I fly xplane , sometimes I do MSFS.  Makes me happy. no need for fighting.

[mjrhealth 820]

4 minutes ago, fogboundturtle said:

Why are you guys even arguing about ? I think a lot of MSFS users flies Xplane and Vice-versa. This survey is pretty meaningless to me. It's the best of both world really. Sometimes, I fly xplane , sometimes I do MSFS.  Makes me happy. no need for fighting.

People are proud. love to be right even when they are wrong

[fogboundturtle 2,708]

8 minutes ago, mjrhealth said:

People are proud. love to be right even when they are wrong

Pride is often a sign of insecurity. I do understand how people who enjoy XP11 feels like MSFS is encroaching on their forums and preaching their way. I just think that both sim have something to offer and the bickering is just not needed. At the end of the day , any sims that brings more people the hobby of aviation simming is a good thing. Regardless of the platform you are using.

[mjrhealth 820]

33 minutes ago, fogboundturtle said:

Pride is often a sign of insecurity. I do understand how people who enjoy XP11 feels like MSFS is encroaching on their forums and preaching their way. I just think that both sim have something to offer and the bickering is just not needed. At the end of the day , any sims that brings more people the hobby of aviation simming is a good thing. Regardless of the platform you are using.

WelI i dont go on MS forums to preach XPlane so no reason why they need to out of insecurity need to come here and preach MS. In fact i think i went there once just to see what a certain person was writing about.

[Sims Smith 302]

On 12/29/2021 at 11:00 PM, abrams_tank said:

Those charts also tell 3rd party developers that MSFS gained market share over the last year. It may entice more 3rd party devs to move to MSFS.

Its a bit more complicated.  Do you want to design an airport and competed against 4 other companies that also created the same airport?  Same thing with aircraft and other addon.  A bigger market share doesn't automatically translate into more addon sale.   The demography of MSFS is very different and number of plugin purchased "per user" is lower for MSFS vs XP/P3D. 

On a different point, if theoretically XP shuts down today, I wouldn't be able to satisfy my flight sim needs with MSFS in its current state. I will have to move to P3D.  I am curious for those users who migrated from XP to MSFS, what actually they are doing in MSFS.  

[Noel 4,503]

11 minutes ago, Sims Smith said:

I am curious for those users who migrated from XP to MSFS, what actually they are doing in MSFS.  

I am curious of what you actually do in XP.  I moved from P3D for years to MSFS and while I understand what essentially is missing in MSFS over P3D, I still am doing 95% of what I ever did in P3D.  I'm only using default planes modded by 3rd parties but more appears to be coming as you know, from PMDG and whomever else.  But it's the same process ultimately, yes of course save a few button presses for now, but it's not all that far off really--even in a modded default 787X.  In general I am okay with waiting until they get to a more mature product provided it doesn't take too much longer.  I think the next 4-6 months will be very telling in answering that question.  I find flying more satisfying, I guess because it feels like I am flying thru the real world, and that adds something intangible, hard to define but very meaningful--despite MSFS' shortcomings.  And sometimes it's just too easy to dismiss all that works very well in MSFS, and focus exclusively on the areas it's still falling short on.

[tonywob 4,769]

47 minutes ago, Sims Smith said:

I am curious for those users who migrated from XP to MSFS, what actually they are doing in MSFS.

I've not migrated, I use both....I don't use P3D now however. MSFS is a great sim for exploring areas of the world I would never normally fly in, I can almost guarantee I can start up anywhere and get decent looking scenery and some great views and just enjoy flying around.. For X-Plane, the areas I know very well are better covered in X-Plane in terms of accuracy (because I also tweak and work on these sceneries myself and put a lot of data in to them), and it gives me much more power to tweak and do what I like as a developer. I find the aircraft and helicopters better, but the lighting and visuals are far behind (which is no surprise considering how old it is). XP12 should give it a much needed boost.

 

[Murmur 3,944]

4 hours ago, Noel said:

I'm a little surprised XP is as low as it is, and that despite MSFS being as immature and incomplete as it is still sees the most # users--which is very telling for just how good it is, for RW pilots.  

What??? What nonsensical logic is that?

E.g, Forza Horizon is probably the most used driving game by far by people with a driving license, but that doesn't mean it's more realistic or better than "City Car Driving" to practice driving skills... 

Let's say that those RW pilots aren't using MFS for practicing e.g. IMC approaches with specified minimum visibility or other similar real life procedures... 😉

Edited January 1, 2022 by Murmur