4 minutes ago, stephendoc said:

You can't add the percentages together since the same respondent can have answered yes to all these options.

 

I'd really recommend reading the full report!

Cheers,

Stephen
Navigraph

Thank you Stephen!  This is exactly what I was referring to.  Glad that Navigraph came to clarify this!

@Murmur, @mSparks, @akita, now do you understand why I said you can't add all the percentages together?  

Clarification was always needed from Navigraph before you could do this.  And Navigraph has clarified.  Thank you to Navigraph!

Edited December 30, 20214 yr by abrams_tank

1 hour ago, RXP said:

but it also seems to me the survey was promoted mostly onto the survey "partners" channels, which are listed page 8, and when looking the full list, most are not really present in the X-Plane eco-system and some of them are very "hype" in the FS2020 world.

I don´t think the survey was as rigged as that ridiculous "game of the year" award where the winner is predetermined by the companies sitting in the jury 🤣🤪... but yeah, it is certainly not a scientific approach to get a realistic picture. The survey is flawed in too many ways to even start counting, which goes both ways (it could be that MSFS is far more succesful that hinted at by this survey, for example!).

I think no one will dispute the fact that MSFS is seeing a lot more use and first-time purchases in the last 1.5 years compared to X-Plane.

I will also not dispute the fact that more (percentage) users of X-Plane switched to MSFS than vice-versa.

We can, however, argue all year long about:

• Which program is the better flight-simulator (hint: that is not equal to "most popular")
• Which program will yield a profit high enough to satisfy it´s stakeholders longer
• If "usage" is as important as "purchase" (of the base program, not add-ons)
• What role third-party addon success really plays for the longevity of any program (is ELITE dead already?)

Most flightsimulator users are of the visual type without any deep aviation knowledge or experience. They will naturally lean towards the more appealing looks of MSFS. I expect it to stay the more popular choice in the future, even when XP12 is out. The majority of flightsimulation users will be disappointed by XP12 because they are focused on graphics - where XP12 will not surpass MSFS.

It is possible that Asobo has ironed out all flaws that caused so much outcry in the first year of it´s existence, at least there are no more negative threads about any problems over at it´s forum at all. If that is indeed so and everyone is happy - then I don´t see why MSFS won´t be the ultimate choice for everyone from here on and quickly drain the remaining few holdouts from X-Plane (except for the Linux-weirdos, of course 😅).

Why is everyone raising their BP unnecessarily , that too looking at the charts , relax breath deep , XP12 will emerge a winner 

I have and Android Phone and iPad for tablet. Both have their strengths. XP12 will build upon a solid sim while MSFS is weekly to monthly shaping forward into what seems to be a sim developed for the masses with every attempt to make it the best flight sim that it can be. I feel when XP12 is released, its not going to have to reinvent itself to be a better sim but just an appropriate size step in building on what is already a solid sim for those like me who are real pilots and have nice simpits to practice proficiency.

I'm currently at idle with MSFS but look forward to the day that I can use it not to replace XP but to enjoy it for what it offers different from XP. I'm more excited about XP12 release for now. I'm also looking forward to Aerofly FS4 as out of them all, its the best helo sim imho. The overall take away from this survey for me is that MSFS is eating more into consuming P3D users and that while XP is not a dominate sim, its holding its own with a rather nice following of users thats not going anywhere.

34 minutes ago, Janov said:

I don´t think the survey was as rigged as that ridiculous "game of the year" award where the winner is predetermined by the companies sitting in the jury 🤣🤪... but yeah, it is certainly not a scientific approach to get a realistic picture. The survey is flawed in too many ways to even start counting, which goes both ways (it could be that MSFS is far more succesful that hinted at by this survey, for example!).

I think no one will dispute the fact that MSFS is seeing a lot more use and first-time purchases in the last 1.5 years compared to X-Plane.

I will also not dispute the fact that more (percentage) users of X-Plane switched to MSFS than vice-versa.

We can, however, argue all year long about:

• Which program is the better flight-simulator (hint: that is not equal to "most popular")
• Which program will yield a profit high enough to satisfy it´s stakeholders longer
• If "usage" is as important as "purchase" (of the base program, not add-ons)
• What role third-party addon success really plays for the longevity of any program (is ELITE dead already?)

Most flightsimulator users are of the visual type without any deep aviation knowledge or experience. They will naturally lean towards the more appealing looks of MSFS. I expect it to stay the more popular choice in the future, even when XP12 is out. The majority of flightsimulation users will be disappointed by XP12 because they are focused on graphics - where XP12 will not surpass MSFS.

It is possible that Asobo has ironed out all flaws that caused so much outcry in the first year of it´s existence, at least there are no more negative threads about any problems over at it´s forum at all. If that is indeed so and everyone is happy - then I don´t see why MSFS won´t be the ultimate choice for everyone from here on and quickly drain the remaining few holdouts from X-Plane (except for the Linux-weirdos, of course 😅).

Janov, this is one of the more objective analysis in this thread so I liked it for the objectivity.

With regard to "Which program will yield a profit high enough to satisfy it´s stakeholders longer," the revenue will decline for MSFS over the years for the consumer market, IMO. I think Asobo said they actually have something like 50 more employees working on MSFS this year over last year, which surprised me (maybe the added employees were just for the X-Box release?).  I expect the revenue to decline for MSFS over the years, as the more casual players stop playing MSFS.  Because I think the revenue for MSFS will decline over the years, there is no way the same number of employees (some of them may be working part time on MSFS) will be working on MSFS 8 years or 9 years later.

 

Edited December 30, 20214 yr by abrams_tank

4 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Because I think the revenue for MSFS will decline over the years, there is no way the same number of employees (some of them may be working part time on MSFS) will be working on MSFS 8 years or 9 years later.

 

MS got it right with the market place and XBox release this time around compared to MSFlight. They now have the community support and a growing market place which provides revenue beyond the one time lease purchase of the sim. Additionally this sim offers so much that it really is the setting itself up to be the end all sim in the MS series. I mean what could they offer after this sim is built out to the limit of what they have shown they are working on to add to the sim that would cause someone to say, I cant wait for their next sim as this one is missing so much and has so much room to be better.

XP12 is on a similar path with the only exception I see is how it does earth compared to how MSFS uses real earth. I dont know where MSFS will be in 8 or 9 years but I feel strong that it will be continuing to enjoy streaming revenue from its market place as where XP only gets revenue from its one time purchase and will need to continue to release new platforms to see new revenue unless they change something.

1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

 

 @akita,

 

Why are you mentioning me though? did I say that? quote please?

XP11.41 & XP11.50 is the same product, that's what I said. Did not even talk about the Navigraph data and whether you can sum them up or not.

I think you mixed it up with the other math fiasco you had before about MSFS2XP vice versa.

For some reason you have developed a habit to quote/mention me while I didn't even call for/talked to you, today when I actually mentioned you for once you ignore and then come up with something I have nothing to do with? dude like, leave me alone and move on, kinda creepy.

2 minutes ago, akita said:

Why are you mentioning me though? did I say that? quote please?

Your quote here, which was a reply to why I said you can't add up the percentages:

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/612672-navigraph-2021-survey-is-out/?do=findComment&comment=4695244

Navigraph confirmed you cannot add up the percentages.

4 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Your quote here, which was a reply to why I said you can't add up the percentages:

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/612672-navigraph-2021-survey-is-out/?do=findComment&comment=4695244

Navigraph confirmed you cannot add up the percentages.

NO!

You compared MSFS & FSX (different products and teams!) to XP11.41 & XP11.50 (same exact product!), hence I asked you about "blackberry". What Navigraph did does NOT change the fact that it is still the same product that you paid ONCE for!

Where did I say you can sum %? 

Honestly, just leaving it here, good luck to the others.

Edited December 30, 20214 yr by akita

7 minutes ago, akita said:

Where did I say you can sum %? 

Ok, I get it. My comment about adding MSFS + FSX + FS 2002 + FS 2004 was always about adding up percentages.

So your reply about to me about "Blackberry" in the first place had nothing to do with my original comment, which was about adding up percentages.  Got it.  You shouldn't have made that reply to me in the first place, it was off topic with respect to my comment about adding up percentages.

Edited December 30, 20214 yr by abrams_tank

Hi,

Don't know how accurate that survey is, didn't even know they had one... Been using flight sim since the 80s, wonder how many other long time simmers didn't participate in that survey as well.

11 hours ago, mtaxp said:

So this thread was an attempt to advertise MSFS "growth"? See you and the one who liked your comment and gone overboard with the survey results.

x-plane standing very well, actually much better than I though, smile and move on😝

This thread was a lame attempt to troll the XP forum by one of the usual suspects. Nothing more, nothing less.

4 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

Thank you Stephen!  This is exactly what I was referring to.  Glad that Navigraph came to clarify this!

@Murmur, @mSparks, @akita, now do you understand why I said you can't add all the percentages together?  

Clarification was always needed from Navigraph before you could do this.  And Navigraph has clarified.  Thank you to Navigraph!

Sigh, you still fail to understand the rationale of when it makes sense adding them or not. 🤦‍♂️

Please answer this question:

If there was the possibility for MFS users to keep SU6 or upgrade to SU7 (and if that options were included in the poll), would you add them together or not? That's EXACTLY the same as XPers using 11.4 or 11.5.

(It's an easy question, even a second grader can understand that. It requires a simple YES/NO answer).

 

5 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

@Murmur, @mSparks, @akita, now do you understand why I said you can't add all the percentages together?

But you were the only one saying that. Most of us always understood you were constructing a nice strawman to you could burn down whilst avoiding the real argument. 

I never understood why MSFS folks insist on trolling this forum.  Yes MSFS has more users but the tank man seems intent on destroying every other sim for some unknown reason.  Maybe he works for the marketing dept of Microsoft.

Yes  Abrahams you win your simulator is better than sliced bread.  Now go back to your little hole and brag on your own forum how superior you feel and leave us peasants alone.  Yes MSFS will have the majority of third party developers because they are in it to make money.  When the next great thing comes people will dump MSFS just as fast as other sims.  If I was a dev I would do the same for the almighty dollar.

Yes I own all simulators (P3D, MSFS, Xplane)  and fly all simulators, each with their own strongpoints.  What is wierd on the .org their is no mention of the survey their, try trolling them tank man.

 

Edited December 30, 20214 yr by sgreen91